Full list of DUTC routes…?
September 14, 2003 at 6:13 pm #591
LG Mans historical comments in other threads have now gotten me curious. Has anyone compiled a list of the old DUTC tram routes and their route numbers, plus accounts of what they were re-numbered into that would correspond (roughly) with CIE Dublin District and Dublin Bus ? From the descriptions offered by LG Man, the re-adjustment of bus routes to newer CIE numbers must have been rather confusing originally, especially what with the bizarre penchant to alpha-suffix all north-side route numbers.
Only asking since I was not able to find such a list online.September 15, 2003 at 1:00 pm #2159
Many of the routes retain the same numbers to this day.
The interesting thing about the DUTC tram routes is that when they numbered them, they went clockwise from route 1 around to route 30.
Try this today with a map, look at the termini of the routes (southside termini for cross-city routes).
After the 30 (now called the 130 of course), there is no pattern, except that the 31, 32, 33 were all ex-GNR routes.
This pattern is still evident today, though a little blurred by route extensions, and you have to discount the modern 17/A (the original 17 was a shortened version of the 16).
The routes which are still in existance today, with the same numbers (though extended in many cases beyond the original termini) are:
The 6, 8, 9, 12, 21 stayed faithful to (but extended beyond) their original tram routes until they ceased operation, while the 22 became the 122 and the 30 the 130.
The 14/A is a special case, as the diversion of this route via the old 47A (Rathgard/Orwell Road) moved it away from it’s original Dartry tram terminus, however the 14A keeps the continuity by following that route.
There is a pattern of routes gaining and losing suffixes over time – i.e. the tram route 7 was City to Dun Laoghaire, when extended to Sallynoggin became the 7A, and then extended again to Ballybrack became plain old 7 again.
Similarly the 29 to Raheny became 29A to the current terminus, and an extended version to planned new housing developments is planned to be the 29.
Some elements of timetabling remain from the very old days – when the DTC (forerunner of the DUTC) built the (15) tramline the local borough council insisted on an early service for workers (artisans) – hence an 05.30 departure which still exists to this very day as a 15B. Early departures are now (thankfully) gradually being introduced, but this one stayed in existance right throught the 60s/70s/80s when buses usually only started at 7am.
The 8 tram from Dalkey also had an early departure, which surviived on the bus route to the very end, and is continued on the replacement 7D.
Similarly, until the phone numbers in Dublin changed to 7 digits, the number for Dublin Bus or CIE Dublin City enquiries was 746 301. In the 60s it was 46301, and in a very early tram timetable it is shown as “Dublin 301”
[posted by: Steve O’Shea]September 25, 2003 at 10:08 pm #2160
Originally, the tram routes were numbered as follows, i dont believe any of these routes actually carried these numbers (they displayed symbols at the time) :
1 Nelson’s Pillar – Dalkey
2 Nelson’s Pillar – Howth
3 Nelson’s Pillar – Terenure via todays 15.
4 Nelson’s Pillar – Palmerston Park
5 Nelson’s Pillar – Clonskea
6 Donnybrook – Phoenix Park
7 Dolphins Barn – Glasnevin (todays 19)
8 Rathfarnham – Drumcondra
9 Kingsbridge – Hatch St (became tram route 22)
10 ‘Connell Bdg – Parkgate St
11 Westland Row – Inchicore
12 Parkgate St – Ballybough
13 Kenilworth Rd – Lansdowne Rd
14 Nelson’s Pillar – Sandymount via R/end
15 College Green – Drumcondra (later became irregular un-numbered service but possibly was numbered 27 by the DUTC towards the end of tram operation on this line).
16 Nelson’s Pillar – Irishtown via Bath Ave (became the very little used 52 in late CIE day’s).
First motor bus routes operated by DUTC from 1925 to 1936 were (in route number order, note that first bus route number used was 43) :
32 : City – Oxmanstown Rd (short period in 1936)
39 : City – Blanchardstown (1926)
39A : City – Clonsilla (1926)
40 : City – Finglas (1925)
40A : City – Cappagh Rd (1932)
41 : City – Swords (1926)
41A : City – Walsh Rd (1929)
42 : City – Coolock (1925)
42A : City – Malahide (1926)
43 : City – Killester (1925)
43A : City – Philipsburgh Ave (1926)
44 : City – Vernon Ave (1926)
44A : City – Sandymount via Bath Ave (1932), now this an is interesting numbering because basically this was the replacement route for the route 4 trams (Dublin’s only single deck tram operated route)which ran via Bath Ave to Sandymount (later of couse it became the 52), it was also the only tram route to take a new route number on conversion to motor bus, all other trams routes on conversion to motor bus (in the main) retained the old tram route number.
45 : City – Blackrock (1926, extended to Bray 1927)
45A : City – Bray via Dun Laoghaire (1930), but between 1932 and 1936 ran City – Beaumont (todays 51A).
46 : City – Stillorgan (1926), extended to Dun Laoghaire in 1927, revised as City – Cabinteely/Shankill in 1932.
46A : City – Cabinteely (1926), also Dun Laoghaire via SALLYNOGGIN (1929-32) then for some reason operated City – Goatstown (1932-1936 which then became the 62 now part of route 11) before returning in 1926 as City – Dun Laoghaire via today’s established routeing.
47 : City – Whitechurch
48 : City – Dundrum extended to Ballinteer in 1932.
48A : City – Goatstown (1928-1933) and in 1933 was then used as the route number for the extended 48 services to Ballinteer.
49 : City – Kimmage X Rd’s (1925) extended to Terenure in 1928, later that year extended to Tallaght.
49A : City – Terenure (1928) extended 1929 to Kimmage X Rd’s and 1932 to Bohernabreena.
50 : City – Crumlin (1925) extended to Terenure in 1926 but cut back to Crumlin again in 1928.
50A : City – Donore Ave in 1929, City – Bohernabreena in 1932, City – Cabra (1932-34), City – Greenhills with Tallaght extensions (1934-39), the 77 (1936, officially 1939) Tallaght service overlaps this period which makes me believe that the ‘shorts’ to Greenhills retained the 50A number while 77 was used for Tallaght buses.
51 : City – Clondalkin (1927)
51A : City – Ballymun (1932) extended to Boot Inn 1934
52 : City – Oxmanstown Rd (1928)
52A : City – Griffith Ave (1932)
53 : City – East Rd (1929) extended to East Wall Rd in 1934
53A : City – Knockmaroon (1930)
54 : City – Kimmage X Rd (1932)
54A : City – Cabra (1934)
55 : City – Rathfarnham (1934)
56 : City – Dalkey (1934)
57 : City – Bulfin Rd (1934)
58 : City – Dollymount (1934)
59 : City – Killiney (1934)
61 : City – Churchtown (1934)
63 : City – Carrickmines (1934)
64 : City – Portrane (1934)
65 : City – Blessington/Poulaphouca/Ballymore (1934)
66 : City – Maynooth (1934)
67 : City – Celbridge (1934)
68 : City – Newcastle (1934)
69 : City – Rathcoole (1934)
70 : City – Dunboyne (1934)
71 : City – Walsh Rd (1934)
73 : City – Rialto (1934)
74 : City – Pine Forest (1934)
75 : City – Terenure (1934)
76 : City – Beechwood Ave (1934)
77 : City – Tallaght (1936 but probably part of 50A as officially 77 did’t start until 1939)
78 : City – Inchicore (1934)
79 : City – The Ranch (1934)
80 : City _ Luttrellstown (1934)
81 : City – Donnycarney (1934)
It’s obvious that route numbers 55 to 81 were SPECIFICALLY retained for routes taken over by the DUTC from Independents, but numbers 60, 62 & 72 were’nt used at this time, which i believe means that there was already plans to abandon the plain/suffix number north/south devide ie 44/44A, 45/45A, 50/50A, 51/51A, 52/52A, 53/53A but this does’nt explain why the 44 became a southside route and 44A a northside route a complete reversal of what had been previously.
Hope this is of interest to somebody!!!.
[posted by: LG MAN]September 25, 2003 at 11:39 pm #2161
As additional info to above thread the following tram routes operated as follows :
1 : NELSON’S PILLAR via todays rte 1 RINGSEND(Thomas St).
2 : NELSON’s PILLAR via todays route 2 SANDYMOUNT GREEN(Sandymount Rd).
3 : NELSON’s PILLAR via todays rte 3 SANDYMOUNT TOWER(Strand Rd).
4 : NELSON’s PILLAR via the old 52 rte SANDYMOUNT TOWER(Strand Rd).
5 : PHOENIX PARK(Nth Cir Rd) via rte 10, 18 & 7 or 63 MERRION RD(Cnr Sandymount Ave) or ANGLESEA ROAD(RDS Showgrounds entrance).
6 : NELSON’s PILLAR via rte 7 BLACKROCK(Main St later Newtown Ave).
7 : NELSON’S PILLAR via route 7 DUN LAOGHAIRE(Georges St Lwr or Marine Rd).
8 : NELSON’S PILLAR via old rte 8 DALKEY(Castle St).
9 : PHOENIX PARK(Nth Cir Rd) via 10, Leinster St, Merrion Sq Nth, Fitzwilliam St, Baggot St, Waterloo Rd, DONNYBROOK(Depot/ie Garage).
9P : PHOENIX PARK – NELSON’s PILLAR.
10 : PHOENIX PARK(Nth Cir Rd) via rte 10 DONNYBROOK DEPOT(todays Garage site), original routeing was via Leeson St.
11 : DRUMCONDRA(Cnr Botanic Ave) via 11 CLONSKEA DEPOT(opp Shanagarry), original routeing was via Sth Gt Georges St, Camden St and Ranelagh Rd. Also, later extended to WHITEHALL(Swords Rd Cnr Griffith Ave).
12 : NELSON’s PILLAR via old rte 12 PALMERSTON PARK(Cnr Dartry Rd).
13 : CLONTARF RD(Cnr St Lawrence Rd) via 130, Talbot St, O’Connell St via 14 RATHMINES(Cnr Castlewood Ave).
There have been other versions of route 13 trams including FAIRVIEW – WESTLAND ROW.
14 : GLASNEVIN(Cnr Ballymun Rd) via 19, O’Connell St, via 14A, DARTRY ROAD(Cnr Orwell Pk).
15 : NELSON’S PILLAR, via 15, TERENURE RD EAST(Cnr Rathfarnham Rd).
16 : WHITEHAL(Swords Rd Cnr Griffith Ave), via 16, O’Connell St, DAWSON ST, ST STEP’S GRN WEST, HARCOURT ST, rte 16, TERENURE CROSS(Rathfarnham Rd) later extended to RATHFARNHAM RD(Cnr Church Lane).
17 : DRUMCONDRA ROAD(Cnr Botanic Ave), via 16 tram above to RATHFARNHAM RD(Cnr Church Lane) later cut back to TERENURE CROSS(Rathfarnham Rd) and extended at times to WHITEHALL(Swords RD cnr Griffith Ave).
18 : KENILWORTH RD(Cnr Harolds X Rd), via 18, PEMBROKE ROAD(cnr Northumberland Rd).
19 : GLASNEVIN(Cnr Ballymun Rd), via 19, RIALTO(Canal Bridge).
20 : GLASNEVIN(Cnr Ballymun Rd), via 19, O’Connell St, DAWSON ST, ST STEP GRN WEST, HARCOURT ST, rte 19, RIALTO(Canal Bridge). Note that a number of sources have referred to a 19A tram, as far as i am aware these are INCORRECT, and there never was a 19A tram, i can only assume they ment this route 20 tram service.
21 : COLLEGE GREEN(BOI), via old 21, EMMET ROAD/TYRCONNELL RD JNCT. Also certain jny’s extended in clockwise direction working via Pearse St, WESTLAND ROW, Nassau St.
22 : HEUSTON STATION(at what is platform 5 today and at which the tram tracks could still be seen on my last visit(1998), South Quays, D’Olier St, Pearse St, Westland Row, Merrion St, Hume St, Earlsfort Terrace, HARCOURT ST STN(Hatch St), at some period also want on via Rathmines to RATHGAR ROAD(Cnr Frankfort Ave).
23 : PARKGATE ST(Phoenix Park Main Gate), North Quays, Capel St, Parnell St, via 123, BALLYBOUGH ROAD(Tolka River Bridge).
24 : BACHELORS WALK(Cnr O’Connell Bdg), North Quays, PARKGATE ST(Phoenix Park Main Gate).
25 : BACHELORS WALK(Cnr O’Connell Bdg) via 25, LUCAN.
26 : BACHELORS WALK(Cnr O’Connell Bdg), via 26, CHAPELIZOD.
27 : May have been either used for a short period or at least allocated to the previously un-numbered and irregular COLLEGE GREEN(BOI) via Capel St, Bolton St, Dorset St, DRUMCONDRA ROAD service.
28 : JAMES’S ST(Bow Lane West), Thomas St, Westmoreland St, Lwr O’ Connell St, Lwr Abbey St, via 130, CLONTARF ROAD(St Lawrence Rd). Interesting that up to at least the late 1980’s one early morning journey on the route 30 was extended to James’s St!!!.
29 : NELSON’S PILLAR, Nth Earl St, via 130, CLONTARF ROAD(Castle Ave).
30 : NELSON’s PILLAR, Nth Earl St, via 130, DOLLYMOUNT(Clontarf Rd/Cnr Belview Terrace).
30A : NELSON’s PILLAR, via 130, CLONTARF ROAD(Castle Ave).
31 : NELSON’s PILLAR, Nth Earl St, via 130, Clontarf Rd, via 32X, Dublin Rd, Sutton X, HOWTH(Harbour Rd/East Pier).
As far as i know the only tram routes with suffixed numbers was the 9P and 30A, it also seems odd that Lower Abbey St was double tracked but only used by the infrequent 28, while the 29, 30, 31 used the mainly single track Nth Earl St and Tolbot St, could be that the 30A also used Lwr Abbey St, wonder if any of the old tracks surfaced during the construction of the present LUAS project.
[posted by: LG MAN]October 19, 2010 at 6:42 am #2162
Sorry for being seven years behind in thanks 🙂 Great detail.October 22, 2010 at 3:11 am #2163
Hadn’t realised it was 7 years since I posted some of the info above!!!.
Anyways, regarding tram routes with suffixes, there was indeed a 19A tram which was basically a ‘short 19’ operating to Dolphins Barn from Glasnevin.
Regarding the 50A, latest info I have is that this was operating to Drimnagh at least by early 1937(I have T/T to prove it)as was the 77 to Tallaght, it now seems that the 50A(Tallaght service) only ran for a short period in 1936 before been re-numbered 77. Dates published in books are in-correct.
Also, the first DUTC bus routes (1920s) were also numbered in a clockwise fashion as followes :
(The 47 & 48 are exceptions, most probably an error by some bod at DUTC).
39 Blanchardstown/39A Clonsilla.
41 Swords/41A Walsh Rd.
42 Coolock/42A Malahide.
43 Killester/43A Marino.
46 Stillorgan/46A Cbinteely.
48A Goatstown(basically the old 62 now route 11).
49 Kimmage Cross Rds/49A Terenure.
52 Oxmanstown Rd.
Basically, after this the numbers were issued as bus companies were taken over regardless of destinations.
By 1930 the 53 was to East Road but the 53A went to Knockmaroon (this was later re-numbered 82 and later still re-numbered 80).
Why suffixed numbers were used in this way we dont know, the 2nd 53A went to Glasnevin (now part route 13).
The last of these odditys (the 51A) was only withdrawn in 2009.
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