The cheek of 59 to state they serve the entire community. There are still no accessible allocation on Ballyfermot routes. Not even the odd stray. They even have the cheek to advertise low floors on local stops even though they are not to be seen. This is taking the piss as they serve the entire community EXCEPT Ballyfermot.
[posted by: a2000]
BUSRAGE Discussions » General Issues
serving the entire community?
(30 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
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59!!!!
The 59 is a local route from Dun Laoighre to Killiney mate.
[posted by: Smoster]Posted 5 years ago # -
59 O'Connell street you muppet. How could a 59 serve the entire community?
[posted by: a2000]Posted 5 years ago # -
Unfortunally not all of Dublin can be low-floor as there simply is'nt enough low floor buses available, there are many other areas of Dublin in a similar situation but these areas will be phased in as soon as more low floor buses are bought by Dublin Bus.
With regard to advertising low floor routes, this is simply all it is, an advertisment! It is highlighting how much progress is being made with low floor routes.
It may be fair to have at least 1 low floor route in Ballyfermot, perhaps the 79, but unfortunally the buses were allocated to the 66/67 routes. Apparantly the reason behind this was due to the vandilism which happens on Ballyfermot routes, if you use the Ballyfermot buses you will see the respect the locals have for them is not great. Who can blame Dublin Bus for not wanting to put new buses there.
[posted by: P]Posted 5 years ago # -
p... my arse if dublin bus advertise a route is low floor then make the poxy route low floor instead of lying to the public,,, examples... routes 129 127 usually rv operated 27, 32A, 32.
[posted by: jodi]Posted 5 years ago # -
burn db
[posted by: barry williams]Posted 5 years ago # -
51B abd 51C 40's, 27, 13 on sunday 25a 50, 65, 65b, 77, 77a all suffer vandalism and some are not low floor routes but have av's on regularly. Ballyfermot does not even have the odd one so Idont buy that s**t. Whats the point in advertising something to people who cant use it?
[posted by: a2000]Posted 5 years ago # -
It really winds them up...?Posted 5 years ago #
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only an employee could come up with that
[posted by: a2000]Posted 5 years ago # -
Or a Firefighter...... : )Posted 5 years ago #
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No it sums up the attitude of the entire company. The services are a wind up as are the timetables'
[posted by: a2000]Posted 5 years ago # -
Runs like clockwork.....Posted 5 years ago #
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In reply to A2000
"The cheek of 59 to state they serve the entire community."
Dublin Bus do operate all across Dublin city and county, so apart from a few remote areas, yes they do serve the entire community.
"There are still no accessible allocation on Ballyfermot routes."
You're right there is not, as mentioned already, the garage does not have enough low floor buses yet, this will change when more are delivered. Its simple, you can't operate buses you don't have.
"Not even the odd stray."
I have seen and traveled on many AV's on the 78A and indeed the 78, so it does get the odd stray.
"They even have the cheek to advertise low floors on local stops even though they are not to be seen."
These ads appear all over the city, it's not just Ballyfermot. The purpose of the ad is to inform the public which routes are low floor, now if they said the 78A was low floor then you would be right to be annoyed but it dose'nt so there is nothing wrong with the information given. It is an advertisment, nothing more. You should'nt get so worked up over it. I once lived in an area of Dublin which had no nitelink but there was still nitelink ad's on the bus stops, sure it made no sense to me but perhaps somebody from outside the area would find the information useful.
"This is taking the piss as they serve the entire community EXCEPT Ballyfermot."
Ballyfermot is not the only area without low floor buses, there are many other routes without low floor.
[posted by: P]Posted 5 years ago # -
"This is taking the piss as they serve the entire community EXCEPT Ballyfermot."
thats a joke, Ballyfermot is one of the best served areas in dublin and the 78/A has AV buses on it occasionaly.
but still i dont care,the buses will just get wrecked up there anyway
[posted by: billy]Posted 5 years ago # -
Ballyfermot may be one of the best served area on the timetable but reality is a different story. There is no ponit in avs on the 78A as wheelchair bound people cannot know when they will arrive. The could sit for 5 hours and be left there. Wheelchair people are part of every community and are not being served in this area by DB so they DO NOT serve the entire community. The adverts DO NOT state low floor routes, they simply advertise low floor buses which are not available. There are plenty of avs on non low floor routes when people least expect them so why not have one on all major routes every hour on the hour each way and mabey THEN they can say they serve the entire community. Incidentally I was out with a person in a wheelchair in Clonsilla and the first 4 39's were RV's so we waited 45 minutes before we could board a bus and the same has happened on 51B where 2 VA's came and then a RH which resulted in a 1 hour wait. So AV's are where they shoud not be and not where they should be. While Ballyfermot is not the only area without avs the majority of areas have 1 route which is av operated passing near. The 7 has no avs but people can use 45/84. Lucan corridor is av operated by 25A 66/A/B/X 67/A/X. These buses serve mostly open country and are wasted as huge residential areas suffer because of this. They are going to have to give us low floor by law so why not now?
[posted by: a2000]Posted 5 years ago # -
The current advertising campaign features a number of different ad's for low floor routes, some carry a route map, others simply a picture of an AV.
It's plain and simple, there are roughly 450 low floor buses in service in Dublin, these buses can't operate every route. They have been assigned to certain routes as decided by each depot, in Ballyfermot's case the buses from Conyngham Rd. depot are assigned to the 51B/51C and 66/67 . I'm not sure if you are familiar with these routes but they do not serve "mostly open country"... nearly every bus to travel out the Lucan corridor is full and Leixlip and Maynooth are not what I call open country!
Routes 25 and 25A are not low floor routes but like most routes, they do get strays from time to time.
I take your point regarding the 39 and it annoys me too when I see RV's on the route, I think this happens when extra buses are put on the route to cover shortages, due to operational reasons and traffic problems its sometimes a case of an RV or no bus at all.
The 7 may share the early part of it's route with the 45 but if you want to take that argument I would say the 123 runs as far as Kilmainham with the 78A, the 51B and 51C run to Inchicore and the 26 runs to Cherry Orchard all of which are low floor operated.
[posted by: P]Posted 5 years ago # -
There will soon be even less AV's to go round in Conyngham road as the move of the 66's and 67's to p/boro will see a lot of them moving with it.
[posted by: G]Posted 5 years ago # -
It is not possible to walk or wheel to inchicore or kilmainham. My point was that the 45 is a short distance from the 7 so an alternative is available. The 66/67 may be full but DOES operate open country from parkgate st to Chapleizod, Palmerstown to lucan, lucan to Celbridge and leixlip to Maynooth. There are little or no residential areas along these stretches of the routes. If you check the db site 26 is not down as accessible. You run the risk of a va coming along same as all routes only this is only approx every hour. Also it seems absolutlely ridiculous to have 51b and 51c accessible as the routes are identical save for a short stretch in clondalkin. Anyone needing an accessible bus could go between the stops they run so close together freeing up av's for where they are needed. These routes also quash any argument regarding vandalism as they are as prone as any other and are quire close to the 78A route. As for your point of the 123 running to kilmainham, do we get off there and walk the rest of the way with the wheelchair? Name one other suburb which does not have an accessible route running through or adjacent to it.
[posted by: a2000]Posted 5 years ago # -
The 7 and 45 run together until Blackrock, you'll find it a lenghty walk from Sallynoggin and Glenageary to the 45.
The distance from Ballyfermot church to Chapelizod is shorter than it is from Sallynoggin to Cabinteely for the 45.
Cherry Orchard has the 26 and there is also a rail link in Cherry Orchard to Heuston which is low floor.
If you check the Dublin Bus website properly you will find that Route 26 IS low floor, this route is part of the 66 batch of buses, so you can be sure to find it AV most of the time.
Other areas of Dublin without designated low floor buses include Dundrum, Stepaside, Howth, Swords, Ballymun, Finglas, North Clondalkin and many other areas, where the distance to a low floor route is not pratical for someone in a wheelchair.
I find it amusing for you to say because a small part of the 66/67 route runs along the Phoenix Park wall and the Liffey that the people in Chapelizod, Palmerstown, Lucan, Lexlip and Maynooth should be stripped of their low floor buses. Shifting the problem does not solve it.
Routes 51B and 51C are run on the same schedule, with the same buses so it would not be possibile to have, say, the 51B RV operated as this bus may be marked in to run as a 51C later.
While I understand vandilism is prone to happening on every bus route in this city, my personal opinion is that vandilism on the 78A is much worse than that on the 51B/C and 66/67. I think Conyngham have taken the right decision by putting new buses onto the Lucan corridor.
[posted by: P]Posted 5 years ago # -
a lot of drivers on av routes will take out rvs or rhs to avoid the constant hassle of argueing with people who refuse to fold up their buggies when there is already an ocuppied buggy on the bus which is sometimes why you get strays on lowfloor routesPosted 5 years ago #
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Kevin is touching on what is probably the REAL reason for A2000`s disaffection.
The original and very specific thrust of Low-Floor provision was and remains for DISABLED persons.
The ability to carry ONE wheelchair in the space designed to accomodate it safely has opened up the "ordinary" world to a great many wheelchair bound people.
HOWEVER...In an attempt to broaden the scope of Low-Floor operations (and to generate Revenue) most operators in the UK and Here also broadcast the "Buggy Friendly" message.
However this is an entirely different scenario from Disabled Access and in my opinion is very definitely acting counter to the needs of the specifically Wheelchair Bound Disabled person.
The regulation is VERY simple.
The design of the Bus allows for the SAFE transport of an occupied wheelchair OR a SINGLE occupied Buggy,placed in a longtitudal position (NOT Crosssways) with the child restrained within it and the brake on.
Sadly for A2000`s wheelchair bound relative the norm now is for many Buggy Pushers to simply ignore the Drivers directions and barge on to occupy the space with as many of their buggies as can be stuffed crossways into the single space available.
This means that the handles of the buggies now protrude out into the gangway and also that the danger to the infants of being dragged or thrown from their buggies is seruously increased.
An infant buggy is not simply a resting place for junior,it has been specifically designed for a purpose and has had to meet exacting standards in order to be offered for public sale.
Similarly,would many of the present generation of Buggy Pushers agree to throw their child onto the front or back seat of a car and leave it to sit sideways unrestrained ?
NO they would bloody Not because the safety of their child is THEIR responsibility !
When they board a Bus things appear to wobble a little,suddenly its the BusDrivers responsibility and every sudden manouvere or less than perfect brake application is cause for concern.
The reluctance of the Bus Industry to re-evaluate this Easy Access principle has now led to a situation whereby "Ordinary" non-disabled persons are beginning to question their use of Buses at all such is the level of delay and inconvienience caused by this significant group of increasingly selfish people.
The arrival of Luas has to a degree worsened things.
It is now quite common on a busy Luas journey to hear the Tram Driver make P/A announcements pleading with Buggy Owners to Keep the Doorways clear and usually such requests recieve the same response as the Bus Drivers similar ones.
The arrival of such engineering phenomena as double and triple width buggies and the extra-length twin buggy now makes it only a matter of time before the Bus Designers impose a retrospective size-limit on such devices.
remember that if one wishes to post a letter one MUST use a Post Office Preferred (POP) envelope and failure to do that will see you having to pay extra postage OR having your mail discarded.
Public Transport of ANY form is all about Mass Movement and facilitating the travel of the greatest mass of people in the least time and with the least inconvienence.
Once we lose sight of this "Greater Good" principle we are into a totally different scenario altogether,one that is far removed from the 78A the 39 or the 51B.....Posted 5 years ago # -
spot on, alek.FOLD THOSE BUGGIES!!!Posted 5 years ago #
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the 120 is advertised as low floor on the new timetables, but the only buses on it mostly are
RV533-540
but,it occasionly sees AV buses at peak hours.
STRANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[posted by: gary]Posted 5 years ago # -
Strange? read the messages above!Posted 5 years ago #
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You have a hbit of misreading posts P. I said the lucan corridor does not need all of its buses low floor operated. My point on the 7/45 was that if you live in loughlinstown you have the choice of the 7 or low floor 45. The 26 is NOT marked on the website timetable as accessible. This is not to say it is not an accessible route but people are not aware of it and it is frequented by other bus types so most of the time is not acceptible. For your information I do not live anywhere near Ballyfermot church and there are 5 arrow services from a rail station in the middle of nowhere which is served by a non accessible route. As pointed out by yourself the 66 is always full and one buggy as pointed out by alek can occupy the space on an av so a journey to Chapleizod would solve nothing.
Howth - dart, frequent av 31/31B
Swords - 33
Finglas - 19/19A Avs frequent on 40's and 83 104 links to 33 in santry
Dundrum - luas
Ballymun - 104
North Clondalkin is served by the same 78A as Ballyfermot which proves my point.
All areas have accessibility or a service which links them to an accessible route to the city.
[posted by: a2000]Posted 5 years ago # -
My point was directed at your statement saying Ballyfermot is the only place in Dublin without low floor routes which is not the case.
Ballyfermot is a big place and I was simply trying to highlight that some parts of Ballyfermot are close to low floor routes. Similar to Ballyfermot, Swords is a massive place too, as is Ballymun and Finglas and there is just as much a walk from Finglas Wast and Finglas South or indeed the River Valley area of Swords as it is from the centre of Ballyfermot to Chapelizod.
You mention you don't live in the centre of Ballyfermot but not everyone lives in Swords village to catch the infrequent 33.
Here is the link to the Dublin Bus low floor guide: http://www.dublinbus.ie/about_us/accessibility.asp
Perhaps we should just agree to disagree on this one. I really believe Dublin Bus have improved in recent years with their commitment to low floor services.
[posted by: P]Posted 5 years ago # -
But were getting great milage out of it. MY point was that 104 would take people from finglas west/south or Ballymun to the 19/19a on Jamestown road. There is a way out of most places even if it is roundabout. Heavy use oe RV on 123 and saw 2 women in wheelchairs at Heuston today letting 4 rh's on 90/91 go to the city. I know 26 is accessible but all routes show a blue wheelchair and say that the rout is low floor except the 26 on the web timetables. 26 has 5 stops before it joins 66/67 on lucan road so would be low floor operated from city to Palmerstown village. I still think theses buses would be better served elswhere. Also on my travels today saw 2x 51B abd 51C on Naas road together all rv/ra's.
P.s have you ever pushed a wheelchair up Chalelizod hill to Ballyfermot?
[posted by: a2000]Posted 5 years ago # -
What a long thread! A2000 you seem to be missing my point again. You are making a lot of fair and valid points. My only argument against any of your posts was your initial statement:
"This is taking the piss as they serve the entire community EXCEPT Ballyfermot."
I actually think it is unfair to expect someone in a wheelchair to travel via an infrequent 104 and then a 19 in order to travel from Finglas to the City Centre. Surely a disabled person deserved the same direct service as the rest of the traveling public, but I understand why this is not possible just yet. Neither do I expect someone in a wheelchair to travel Chapelizod hill, I used this example to simply compare distances against that of the 7 and 45 route, if you read back through my post you will see this is very clear, I never suggested this is a practical solution for a disabled person so your last P.S. question is a little unfair!
Unfortunally no matter where the AV buses are put they will be excluding a particular area, they can't be everywhere. If they were on the 78A it would mean that perhaps Clondalkin would have no low floor routes, so it comes down to a basic lack of buses, thats all.
Over the past 4 years Dublin Bus has taken on about 450 new low floor buses, averaging at around 110 new buses a year. If this trend continues then I would expect more major routes such as the 78A will in turn become low floor.
[posted by: P]Posted 5 years ago # -
P class was withdrawn after 10 years and some AD after 9. Older AV's are now 4 years old so may already be half way through their life. As buses are introduced they may also be withdrawn. My pint regarding the 104 was that the journey CAN be made although with difficulty but from here it cant be done at all.
THe 78A serves all residential on its whole route while 51b/c serves industrial the lenght of Naas road and then via 78a to city . I still think these buses could be put to better use elswhere or have 1 accessible bus on ALL routes on the hour every hour in both directions and then thy would be serving the entire community.
[posted by: a2000]Posted 5 years ago # -
people in ballyfermot wont be happy to hear that AV22-33,93-103,288-293 are moving to phibsboro because RV533-540,544/5/7/8/9,603-609,631-634 are moving out to harristown,
so even less low floor buses in conyngham road,
so expect the old buses for quiet some time.
[posted by: gary]Posted 5 years ago #
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