Does anyone know the Domestic Drivers Hours Rules for the Irish Republic, and if so, can you summarise? Also can you back your statements up by use of an Enforcment Agency? web links??
[posted by: Aircoach man]
BUSRAGE Discussions » General Issues
Time for Action @ Aircoach
(50 posts)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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Am sick of being pressured and rostered 12hour continuous shift without breaks. Enough of the banter and snide comments, instead why isnt there any enforcement of Drivers Hours in this country like there is in the UK or Europe? Takes the piss. Whats is this? F**king toy town or what? No wonder so many road deaths take place in Ireland. Trouble is, no one gives a f**k.
[posted by: Aircoach man]Posted 3 years ago # -
Are U sure you`re not FLAMING !!!!
Both the NBRU and SIPTU will provide you with leaflet form chapter and verse on Drivers hours regulations.
The drivers hours enforcement is primarily the realm of the Gardai with Input from the Dept of Transport and on occasion The Dept of Trade and Industry or whatever they are known as now.
You could of course try writing to the headquarters of First Group in London or more particularly to some of the local Traffic Commissioners in parts of the UK who have been revoking large dollops of First Groups operating licences after hearings involving tales of poor or nonexistent maintenance recording and other interesting ommissions.Posted 3 years ago # -
i think the relevent laws governing above will be found in 1961 road traffic act section 114 (domestic regulations) ie.working less than 50km from base.summary=max daily duty=11 hrs.max cotinuous period of driving,after which break of at least 30 mins must be taken=5hrs 30 mins.min daily rest=10 hours in every 24hrs.
eu regulations 3820/85,3821/85 (tachographs)these regulations must be adhered to all week if you drive outside 50km from base
once in that working
week.
max daily driving=9hrs(can be increased to 10 twice a week but must be paid back by end of 2nd week)
max driving without break=4hrs 30 mins,after which a break of not less than 45mins must be taken(this can be split up in breaks of not less than 15mins within that driving period)
min daily rest=11hrs(can be reduced to 9hrs 3 times a week,but again must be paid back)
max driving in a fortnight=90hrs(no exceptions)its your licence driving remember!
if that helps.
your wasting your time wanting the gardai to implement it,most of them wouldnt know a tachograph chart if it bit them on the arse!different story in the north but,i have seen aircoach on the belfast/dublin route,speed limiters on the buses must be non existent,the speed they're doing never mind tacho clocks,which is just asking for trouble in the north be warned!its the driver that takes the wrap,sullivan doesnt give a f**k.Posted 3 years ago # -
fellow aircoach driver, i've had enough of the s**t AC dish's out, i'm with you on this one, i've mailed the dept of transport without naming the company (AC) they said they would pay them a visit if i named the company, they said they would look at tacho's even though we dont use them, but as far as i know the company are required by law to keep a record of everyone's working hours, As bad as things are for us on the city run, AC is really taking the piss out of the lads on the belfast run with their 14hr day, and getting paid per run, we could talk about the s**t and abuse handed down by AC all day, but i think its time to give some back, a starter could be getting in touch with AER RIANTA health and safety, to inform them about the hours AC drivers are made do whilst carrying their customers, that includes the car park buses where the lads are also doing 12hrs without a break, i hear a few weeks ago of an AC driver doing over 100 hrs in one week, its time to kick john where i've had a pain for a long time!!
[posted by: aircoach brother]Posted 3 years ago # -
Hi there brother.
Well i have been in contact with a Mr Ivor Geraghty at The Department of Transport's Road Haulage Section regarding the lack of (proper)Tachopgraph use. The matter is well and truly in thier hands now. Apparently according to a Ms M Doyle (An Aircoach Director) Aircoach are exempt from using Tacho's on either the Belfast or Port Loiase routes. (I bet Ulsterbus & Bus Eirean wished they had such special treatment)
I also have been in contact with The Gardai Traffic Section and asked them what they are going to do about the lack of enforcment regarding drivers hours. Whats more, what would the passengers and general public say in the event of a serious accident involving an Aircoach bus. To top that, what would they say in the event of an accident knowing the Gardai had done nothing about the lack of compliance with Section 114 of The Road Traffic Act 1963?
I am also currently in comunication with The Irish Independant and Dublin Evening Herald, so we will have to wait and see whats going to happen if anything down that road.
We have Basic Rights to work in a safe and acceptable manner, and the passengers need to know they are in safe hands.
If any other Aircoach Driver thinks they would like to disagree with my comments, then please voice your opinions. Particularly those who volunteer to work restdays upto midnight and the early hours and then return to work at 6am or sometimes earlier the following morning!
Its good to see fellow collegues agree with me on this one though. Stand up for your rights!
"..and avoid the mourning after..."
[posted by: Aircoach Man]Posted 3 years ago # -
Mr Ivor Geraghty was the same gent i was in touch with, as you point out those drivers (the yes men) and we all know who the are, and the fools doing their rest day for flate rate, thats right folks john with all the millions pays flat rate O/T, and sure we all do O/T as the working week is 39hrs and AC require we do at least 45hrs, Well AC man anything i can do to help track me down wont give details online just in case john has an interest in this site, i have a load of tacho's i recorded myself as evidence of 12 hr shift also 9hr non stop driving,
[posted by: aircoach brother]Posted 3 years ago # -
Mr Ivor Geraghty was the same gent i was in touch with, as you point out those drivers (the yes men) and we all know who the are, and the fools doing their rest day for flate rate, thats right folks john with all the millions pays flat rate O/T, and sure we all do O/T as the working week is 39hrs and AC require we do at least 45hrs, Well AC man anything i can do to help track me down wont give details online just in case john has an interest in this site, i have a load of tacho's i recorded myself as evidence of 12 hr shift also 9hr non stop driving,
[posted by: aircoach brother]Posted 3 years ago # -
Dangerous oul talk here Gentlemen.
You would do well to remember that your employer is bound by law to adhere to the Road Traffic Acts AND all relevant leglislation regarding the Health,safety and wellbeing of the company`s staff.
It is a VERY serious matter indeed to make allegations to the contrary.
Remember that if your allegations are found to be true and the matter is determined by a court then the Company`s Directors (Jointly and Severally I believe they call it) may be in line for a criminal record.If I were youze I would be very careful about using the Net for anything other than general observations as highly charged and emotional outbursts could actually weaken any case you may have.
You would do well to remember also that under the present Political Administration your company is quite highly regarded and as such may be somewhat better placed to weather any storm brought about by a few "Disaffected" employees.
The official people will deal only in specifics such as the reported statement concerning "Exemption" from Tachograph regulations.
If I was a driver on the routes mentioned I would first require to have sight of the "Exemption" certificate before sallying forth.
At day`s end it really is all about self-preservation....It is YOUR Licence,not the company`s and that goes for ANY professional driver.....Remember...Let`s be careful out there.....!Posted 3 years ago # -
thanks AS all replies most welcome, note taken on using the net regarding such talk about AC, its far from a pretty sight up here, the list is endless, highly charged and emotional outbursts come from being treated like somthing the directors have scraped off their shoe, when all is said and done its the drivers licence, but lets not forget the tragic accident on wellington quay, nobody ever wants to see that happen again, but lets face it when drivers are working upto 100hrs a week without a break it only a matter of time (lets hope not) till something similar happens again, I think we owe it to the public who use the services, and its their money that is paying the mortgage putting food on the table and putting clothes on our kids.
[posted by: aircoach brother]Posted 3 years ago # -
christ lads,no harm to ya, but those are serious hours your doing!i know this sounds "cliche"but no job or money is worth that risk to yourself or others,especially driving on irish roads now! i still think your on a road to nowhere trying to get the irish authorities to do anything,remember seamie uses aircoach as his prime example of an excellent public transport company(the type he wants to replace what we have) of the future!god help us,so he's not going to allow anything to rock the boat!dont think us paddys are that slow but,going by the passenger no's on the belfast/dublin service"aircoach"is a very apt name from what i can see!people still want to travel in safety.Posted 3 years ago #
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christ lads,no harm to ya, but those are serious hours your doing!i know this sounds "cliche"but no job or money is worth that risk to yourself or others,especially driving on irish roads now! i still think your on a road to nowhere trying to get the irish authorities to do anything,remember seamie uses aircoach as his prime example of an excellent public transport company(the type he wants to replace what we have) of the future!god help us,so he's not going to allow anything to rock the boat!dont think us paddys are that slow but,going by the passenger no's on the belfast/dublin service"aircoach"is a very apt name from what i can see!people still want to travel in safety.Posted 3 years ago #
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are the lads still eating there lunch /dinner on the run this is also a serious health hazzard surely proper breaks have to be taken.(nothing worse than hot tea over ya bollox)
[posted by: ivor b wun]Posted 3 years ago # -
Just a thought,but Aircoach`s owner,First Group do have a long established relationship with the English TGWU.
Perhaps some contact with people involved in day to day negotiations with FG Human Resources on the UK Mainland might give you some pointers as to what would be the best course of action in your specific case.Posted 3 years ago # -
Just a thought,but Aircoach`s owner,First Group do have a long established relationship with the English TGWU.
Perhaps some contact with people involved in day to day negotiations with FG Human Resources on the UK Mainland might give you some pointers as to what would be the best course of action in your specific case.Posted 3 years ago # -
A/C wouldnt recognise a union .its their way or the highway .....
[posted by: IVOR B WUN]Posted 3 years ago # -
ROAD TRAFFIC ACT, 1961 SECTION 114
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1961 24 114
Limitations on periods of continuous driving. 114.—(1) Each of the following periods or series of periods of driving shall be an excessive period for the purposes of this section:
( a ) any continuous period of driving exceeding five and one-half hours;
( b ) any series of continuous periods of driving amounting in the aggregate to more than eleven hours in any period of twenty-four hours beginning two hours after midnight;
( c ) any period or series of periods of driving so arranged that the driver has not at least ten consecutive hours for rest in every period of twenty-four hours beginning at the commencement of any period of driving.
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section—
( a ) where a driver has at least nine consecutive hours for rest in a period of twenty-four hours beginning at the commencement of a period of driving, the period of at least nine consecutive hours shall be reckoned as a period of ten consecutive hours if the driver has at least twelve consecutive hours for rest in the twenty-four hours next after the expiration of the above-mentioned period of twenty-four hours;
( b ) any two consecutive periods of driving shall be regarded as one continuous period unless they are separated by an interval of not less than half-an-hour during which the driver can obtain rest and refreshment;
( c ) any time spent by the driver of a vehicle at work (other than driving) in relation to the vehicle or the load carried thereon, including in the case of a public service vehicle any time spent in any capacity (other than as driver or as a passenger) on the vehicle while on a journey, shall be reckoned as time spent in driving;
( d ) in the case of a vehicle which is being used for or in the course of any operation of agriculture or forestry, time spent driving or working on or in connection with the vehicle while it is not on a public road shall not be reckoned as time spent in driving.
(3) A person shall not drive, or cause or permit any person employed by him or subject to his orders to drive, for an excessive period a mechanically propelled vehicle which either is a large public service vehicle or is intended or adapted solely for the drawing of another vehicle or is fitted with a body intended or adapted solely for the carriage of goods or two or more such vehicles successively.
(4) ( a ) The Minister for Industry and Commerce may make regulations for enabling this section to have effect.
( b ) Regulations under this subsection may, in particular and without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing paragraph, make provision in relation to all or any of the following matters:
(i) the keeping of records in respect of persons engaged in driving vehicles to which this section applies;
(ii) the form of the records;
(iii) the persons by whom the records are to be kept;
(iv) the production of the records to members of the Garda Síochána and specified officers of the Minister for Industry and Commerce;
(v) the exhibition of specified, notices in vehicles in relation to which this section applies.
(5) Where a person contravenes subsection (3) of this section or a regulation under subsection (4) of this section which is stated to be a penal regulation, he shall be guilty of an offence.
(6) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section consisting of driving, or causing or permitting driving, for an excessive period, it shall be a good defence to the charge for him to show that the act alleged to constitute the offence was due to delay in the completion of a journey and that the delay was unavoidable and was caused by circumstances which he could not reasonably have foreseen.
(7) ( a ) The Minister for Industry and Commerce may by regulations vary or suspend in any manner any excessive period.
( b ) Regulations under this subsection shall not be made save—
(i) where the Minister for Industry and Commerce is satisfied that bodies representative of the employers and employees concerned are in favour of the change to be effected by the regulations, and
(ii) after consultation by that Minister with the Minister.
( c ) Different regulations may be made under this subsection—
(i) in respect of different classes of vehicles,
(ii) for different circumstances.
(8) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in any other section of this Act, this section shall not apply to or in respect of vehicles owned by the State and used for military or police purposes or to or in respect of persons in the public service of the State driving vehicles so owned and used.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Well well well.....Havent things gone very quiet out Collinstown way.
Has Aircoach moved to address the concerns of it`s muttering disaffected "men" and their "brothers" ?
However......The revelation in todays papers that a certain Aer Rianta worker director,Mr C Brett has flown the Airport Coop to take up a perch in Aircoach has suddenly stimulated interest in recent deliberations within that (Aer Rianta) board.....
And to make matters worster some of the higher profile "Wildcats" at the top of SIPPTU are now pressing the poor oul Civil Servants in the Dept of Transportability to show evidence of action on the many and varied official written complaints which have been submitted concerning Aircoach`s alledged non compliance with it`s licence conditions and OTHER matters in relation to the requirement to be of good repute etc....
Under poor Oul Mr Brennan the Dept had carte blanche to keep a shut mouth on any matters relating to Private Operators in the face of persistent questioning from other Interested Parties.
However the present situation which has that fine fellow struggling to find dry land as the waves lap around his ankles is also threatening to loosen his vice-like grip on the Dept.
It is whispered over wine and cheese in certain Molesworth St lodging houses that some senior CS`s are a little...ahem...."concerned" that THEY may end up carrying the can for the apparent unwillingness to release information which should be in the public domain.
The career civil servants did not appear to be as astute as the savvy Mr Brett in spotting "A good career opportunity in the private sector".
Expect some rather unusual statements and even more incredible movements in the near future........Boring,it Aint !!Posted 3 years ago # -
evening alek, we're all still out here, things are quite out here at the moment, the calm before the storm, we're all looking for jobs, AC at the moment are a tad bit worried about their contract with aer rianta for the shuttle buses to the long term car park, watch this space.
[posted by: the brother]Posted 3 years ago # -
Hi Lads .. To say im not a bit surprised in the least to hear of all th3 crap you guys have to put up with is a little of an understatement .What you guys are dealing with is what certain vested interests have in mind for us all in DB .i am interested to know if you guys are in any of the trade unions and if so what if anything are they saying about this situation .If you are not why not organis yourselves .If word gets out your brothers in DB can be called upon to support you in any dispute that may arise and we will support you ..You might be pleasently surprised ..After all we are all transport workers .With regard to the yes men working the crazy hours two thing are going to happen there . .1 . When the working time directive kicks in next year theyare going be limited to 48 max in any working week .Keep this site updated in this regard with to AC on this as DB drivers are going to have to watch the competition to see that they are all playing on a level playin surface .2 If these yes men have a big bang when over the hours the company will drop them like a hot stone and leave them to face the law .So i say f**k the yes men..
All the best from 51Bman
ps is gerry lynch still with AC .He was head hunted from DB Tech DptPosted 3 years ago # -
Greetings 51B man, first of all yes Ger is still with AC and sure could you blame him nice handy number and company merc, i believe a few year ago an attempt to set up a union was crushed by the dictator JOS, don't quote me on that maybe aircoach man can shed some light on that if he's still alive, with so many part time drivers and drivers that cant even speak english and of course the yes men, its really much of a non runner, it would be very lonely knocking on the door of JOS and telling him you want a union and getting no back up from fellow drivers, it's an education to drive for aircoach, all i can say it any attempt to privatise DB should be strongly resisted, i would hate to see the owners of aircoach and the like to get their hands on DB routes and drivers.
[posted by: THE BROTHER]Posted 3 years ago # -
Im still here, although 4drivers leave within the next week and 3 groundstaff.
mark my words things are happening on the quiet. cant say too much yet but you will see soon.
Just a few pointers:
When First Group tok over the Great Western region trains in the UK, it was left to run the way it always had been for about two years,,,,,,,until,,,,,,,
Suddenly all the trains had "First" written all over them and before yo knew it, complete management re-structuring, redundancies and i tell you what,,,,,
,, they certainly aint driving posh mercs anymore!! lol. Nor do they ignore maintenance, treat staff like s**t and generally think they are a cut above the rest when they aint.
As for the union stuff, you need to talk to the bald headed bloke about what happened to that.
oh and one last thing...
Gerritt Moolman, why do u take the piss and drive soo f**king slow?? Treat the skulls how ye like but dont take the piss out of yer fellow drivers, thats a good lad.
[posted by: Aircoach Man]Posted 3 years ago # -
Yes my friend ain't things getting worse up here, there will be no one left here soon praise the lord, as for ground staff no loss to us at all, they really have no idea, like headless chickens up at number 5, maybe with a bit of luck the moolman will f**koff with the rest of them, but i doubt it lazy whore, it seems to be the good one's we're losing. that's not including ground staff. ah well 2 moro's another day can't wait, nice to see your still with us AC man.
[posted by: THE BROTHER]Posted 3 years ago # -
AircoachMen(+women)of the world....arise and unite...!!
Hey where have the Boyz all gone..?
Has peace and tranquility broken out in Collinstown..?Posted 3 years ago # -
ever thought about joining the I.W.U. they are currently recruiting member,s in Dublin bus,and Bus Eireann .Hey it,s worth a tryPosted 3 years ago #
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Any word on how Aircoach are implimenting the EU Working Time Directive......????Posted 3 years ago #
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Private companies have been given a one year exemption because wait for it "they are working for themselves" whatever that,s supposed to meanPosted 3 years ago #
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"Working for themselves" implies non-receipt of subsidy. However, if they are granted contract operation of DB routes, then they will indeed be subsidised.
If you are to have non-subsidised bus service at all, it would rapidly descend into a nightmare. Bus companies would cut service back to only those trips and times per day that would turn a profit. All unprofitable services would be eliminated. Bus conditions would deteriorate to the point of their becoming death-traps. Competition would become cut-throat—look at what happened when Stagecoach were allowed to run rough-shod over their "competition" (whose true rewards they are starting to reap). The only thing that would result is more cars on the road...Posted 3 years ago # -
Hey Kev....have you any sources for this info...The shytte has just struck the rotating blades in the CIE Bus group as the sudden ad-hoc implimentation of the directive from the 1st Jan appears to be applied to "Mobile" staff also.
It had been thought that "Mobile" staff (Drivers),and particularly those operating under the 50Km limit continued to be covered by the "National" regs..Ie: 66 hrs max weekly.
This one IS going to take legs...just watch...!Posted 3 years ago # -
If I was you I certainly would not bother asking either NBRU or SIPTU about working hours. Just recently Dublin Bus announced they would be implementing "SOME" of the 1963/1965 Road traffic act which relates to working hours YES 50 YEARS after it was brought into law and the reaction of the unions????
"It suited us not to implement it"
There is NO regard for the law in the semi state transport companies so why would there be any in the private one's.
[posted by: Ronnie]Posted 3 years ago #
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