I have to say that SIPTU is a shower of GOBSHITES. For heaven's sake, the ineffective Minister makes his usual type of stupid statement, this time to a crowd of political hacks, and SIPTU listens to him???????
Would you for God's sake cop yourselves on and ignore his ramblings. He hasn't got a clue what he's talking about, there's absolutely no substance to anything he says and you give him the time of day and make him think he's important and that he knows what he's doing.
I for one, as an annual pass holder and regular commuter, absolutely DEPLORE the SIPTU gobs**tes' decision to go on a 24 hour strike next week. Think again! YOU do NOT have MY support!
BUSRAGE Discussions » Government and Politics
Not Another Strike!
(34 posts)-
Posted 4 years ago #
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Serious question marks about the intelligence levels of public transport staff...are you people trying to bring about the very result that you constantly rail against???
I depend on you people to get me to work and if there is one word that comes to mind when thinking of public transport it's UNRELIABLE ! I have chosen not to own a car because I believe in Public Transport but you people really are the bloody limit.
The sooner somebody finally breaks that monopoly the better. By the way, if you think you enjoy any level of public support with your frequent disruptions and threats of disruption then I suggest that you visit planet Earth sometime to find out what people really think.
Somebody, please do something quickly about this miserable company.
[posted by: much put upon]Posted 4 years ago # -
Well, mpu. For a start, not all members of CIÉ staff are in favour of this particular action. Please save your question-marks for the intelligence levels of SIPTU, not the staff, whose jobs are at stake.
Public transport itself isn't unreliable. The country's transport infrastructure is. Regardless of which company's brand is on the buses, services won't improve. DB is not to blame for the inadequacies of DCC and the government.
There is a lot of "I, I, I" in your post. Yes, you'll be inconvenienced by the action, but do you honestly expect us to just sit back and allow this pathetic joke of a transport minister to impose his half-thought-out ideas onto us.
I spend much of my week driving around on "planet earth". Most of its inhabitants, while obviously peed off about the disruption seem to be sympathetic towards our plight. I do agree though that the actions of March 18th will amount to nothing more than shooting ourselves in the feet.
[posted by: Mr Angry]Posted 4 years ago # -
There is no question of expecting anyone in DB to sit back and allow the minister to impose his ideas no matter how badly thought out they are.
A process has been started. There is nothing that this idiot can do by making silly statements to the press (who are extremely shallow and gullible) and his party hackery. Pay him NO notice.
Perhaps it might be a good idea for your unions to issue a simple press statement of their own saying simply that you cannot take this person seriously when he is unable to use the proper procedures and forums (fora?).
For God's sake, you can easily distribute leaflets to your customers and what could be your supporters, provided you don't piss them off.Posted 4 years ago # -
ha ha i get the day off work, nice 1 lads a few more strikes please!Posted 4 years ago #
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Agree with all of the above posts.
We (Union Members) are not being given either the representation or the leadership which will allow Bus Atha Cliath to move forward and take up the challenges constantly being thrown down by this Minister.
There are presently TWO Important areas where the Unions silence is mystifying.
Yesterday`s High Court case involving Aircoach and its own Finance Director Joe Shortall.
Following the granting of an interim restraining order by Mr Justice Kelly we must await the outcome of a full hearing to establish exactly what is going on in the Company.However given the submissions made by Mr Shortall the Judge obviously felt that the issues were serious enough to merit a full hearing.
Aircoach has since its foundation been the main tool used by Minister Brennan in his continous bid to undermine and reduce morale within the CIE bus companies.
The outcome of this case could further expose the Ministers lack of understanding or judgement in matters transport and so it should be watched very closely indeed.
Remember Mr Brennan is of the opinion that Aircoach should be considered as a model for similar operations under his new framework.
The second serious credibility problem Minister Brennan has is his incolvement in GilmartinGate and this of itself raises serious questions which,if we really were a democratic country,would have seen this Minister step aside long ago.
Tom Gilmartins allegations cut straight to the bone of how and why basic policy decisions were/are made at Government level.
Although Mr Gilmartins allegations concern property development and planning issues it remains a perfectly valid supposition to consider the financial aspects of Franchising or semi-privatisation as offering similar areas which could offer unscrupulous individuals an opportunity to exceed their remit as public representatives.
When viewed individually either of these cases represent grounds for challenging Mr Brennans dogged insistence on pursuing his poorly supported "Plan".
With many people,both inside and outside the Industry now openly questioning the reasons for Mr Brennans unusual determination to disembowel CIE the addition of these two items together serves to advocate extreme caution.
Sadly,the unions response is just as idiotic and nonsensical as Mr Brennans plan,and asan NBU member I lump both unions together,It seems a terrible waste of SIPTU resources not involve its extensive research and legal department in a concerted research driven campaign to put this Ministers Tenure at an end.
However no matter what happens on the 18th it is apparent that for Seamus Brennan the Hounds are Barking.....Posted 4 years ago # -
I read the Aircoach report with some concern. I'm an accountant and find the alleged accounting practices peculiar to say the least. Two things come to mind. One is that Revenue nowadays allow very little leeway in the deadlines for submitting payments for VAT and PAYE and if they believe that a business is taking advantage of them as a source of cheap cash by not paying them on time, then interest and penalties will be enforced. The other is that First Group appeared to treat the Irish operations with a certain degree of tentativity.
If management was proved in any company to have abdicated its responsibility in the efficent running of the business it would be a dereliction of responsibility by the Directors of the company and as such the Shareholders would be entitled to remove them forthwith.
[posted by: Luaswatcher]Posted 4 years ago # -
Just to get back on the strike issue, the Minister will look good from this strike day. He'll be sitting back there looking all concerned and worried and talking about the travelling public being inconvenienced needlessly. He has a week to prepare his statements for the lazy press. It will look bad for the unions because he hasn't actually done anything to cause a strike, except, of course, open his big mouth and repeat the wind up that he has been taught to say. Go on strike because you are wound up? Come off it.
Strike is an ultimate weapon that should be used sparingly to cause most effect. After strike there is no further weapon to use.
Why not keep your powder dry, put forward your arguments and let them stand on their own merits. Carry out surveys and studies and publish them. Investigate and document other ministerial brainwaves in other countries, on the basis that this fella didn't think of this himself. He's not that original!
In other words, use reasoned argument, supported by studies and investigations, to wrongfoot this minister. Don't gift him an opportunity to point the finger.
Why not ignore his utterings and issue statements to that effect? If the Minister has something worthwhile to say, which I seriously doubt, listen to him only while he is negotiating in the proper forum.Posted 4 years ago # -
After strike there is no further weapon to use
Except actual weapons... :-
BTW, in Philadelphia USA, the Transport Workers Union are threatening a strike that would shut down the city bus, tram and elevated-railway operations of SEPTA (aka the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority). Their issues are somewhat more pressing, such as management attempting to force the workers to foot their own bill for health insurance plus making them work two years with no raise. However, with the inner and central city areas quite bus-dependent, that would be quite crippling to the city. (Suburban buses/trams and commuter rail operation would not be affected due to their having different unions.) Already the people of Philly are calling for judges to rule it illegal for the TWU to strike, as is the case with New York City buses and subways.
So, should the ability to strike be removed so long as other recourses can be put in place for the unions to bargain with? Same question applies to SIPTU as well as TWU in this arena...Posted 4 years ago # -
Luaswatcher. It is interesting to read an accountants view of the Aircoach report.
With an injunction now in place,one presumes the parties now have some time to reflect on their respective positions.
I however am concious of Aircoach being never far from Minister Brennans lips when it came to Bus Operations in Dublin and the great man even had to trumpet Aircoach from the podium of the FF ard fheis as late as last week.
I view the present situation as a serious embarrasment to both the Minister AND his departmental advisers.
It would appear that the accountancy issues are of a serious nature and this in itself may preclude a quiet out-of-court settlement.
However Luaswatchers second point regarding the attitude of FirstGroup is equally worthy of note.
FirstGroup are a major player internationally and are second to none in the amount and quality of Accountancy Advice available to them.
One supposes that Mr Shortall was recruited under FirstGroup patronage yet it appears that he was dismissed by the former owner of the Aircoach entity.There would appear to be some conflict of decision making responsibility inherent in this arrangement but it looks like the High Court will be the final arbiter of the issue.
I still believe that the Aircoach story points to yet another misjudgement on Minister Brennan`s already broad canvas of similar ones....
Oh well lets wait and hear what Judge Mahon has to say on Seamuseen`s adventures in the world of Property Development...and not an accountant to be seen...!Posted 4 years ago # -
BAC have an abysmal track record of pissing off the public (remember the public...you know...the reason you are driving those buses in the first place?), so much so that you enjoy about the same level of public support as the taxi drivers did before deregulation.
In general, I support the theory of a single bus provider working to compliment the rail service rather than in competition with it, however the complete disregard for the public that is all too evident at BAC makes it a popular thing for a Minister to break up your company and hand out your routes to others.
If BAC provided a RELIABLE service with good customer service it would not be a popular choice for the minister to deregulate and therefore it wouldn't happen. So what do you do ? You remind the public yet again of your track record on strikes official and unofficial. Just ponder this - I have an annual ticket, I have used your services for years, your strike next week will cause me problems and I'll think of you as a gang of wasters. On the other hand, you are not going to inconvenience the minister and you are going to make his deregulation look like he is doing something positive to rid us of a problem bus company...not very bright!
Finally, my earlier remarks about intelligence levels at BAC was not intended to refer to individuals but it most certainly applies to groups. You give Trade Unionism a bad name.
[posted by: MPU]Posted 4 years ago # -
Lovely. More "I, I, I, I, I" from MPU.
I don't believe in arguing with people who use terms such as "gang of wasters" to describe those who they disagree with. However, WE do not give trade unionism a bad name. SIPTU is big enough to do that itself. SIPTU is a political organisation (of which I am not a member) and they have their own reasons for calling this strike.
Thankfully, (if my passengers are anything to go by), we do enjoy a decent level of public support. They know that it won't just be the CIÉ staff that suffer when Brennan has his wicked way.
[posted by: Mr Angry]Posted 4 years ago # -
Mr Angry...I see MPU`s point too.....Whilst walking is recognised as healthy he might not want to walk on the 18Th.
But lets extrapolate a bit....Seamus Brennan could be said to give polititians a bad name,yet the MPU`s of this world keep voting for him in the hope that he will put manners on the messers,which of course he wont,cos he is a messer himself.
Taken collectively,the Fianna Fail Parliamentary Party is increasingly giving organized crime an equally bad name,yet the opposition manage nary a peep...oooops..I nearly forgot the lad...Lowry...what was it he was famous for......Posted 4 years ago # -
MR Angry - you really don't get it. The reason you are hearing I, I, I is because you are paid to drive buses for me the customer - the one party that you conveniently overlook when fighting with your managers and ministers and other unions. Your company from the top down has a customer service (and industrial relations) ethos from the 1960s. The only time you or any other parties to the transport shambles remember the customer is when you are looking around for some sort of weapon to use in the latest of your endless disputes.
As far as public support goes - people will tell you one thing and think another. Try talking to people who a) use your services and b) don't know you are a bus driver - you might see a little less support then and realise how it is possible for a Minister to give away your routes and still be popular. With no apologies for using the "I" word again, I will probably walk or cycle (along with half a million other "I"s out there) the eight miles to work on Thurs next and I will try to remember that it is of course you who is the real victim in all this.
Anyone ever go on a customer service course in BAC ? - stupid question - sure how could you improve on what's there now and even if you could, why would you bother ?
[posted by: MPU]Posted 4 years ago # -
Make sure MPU,that you wear a good quality "Kite Mark" helmet and a Hi-Viz vest....That should keep you safe..!Posted 4 years ago #
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Yes, MPU. I am paid to drive buses for you, the customer. However, if our current transport minister gets what he wants, I (along with many other "I"s) may find myself looking for an alternative means to feed my family. Yes. It is selfish, using the customers as our weapons, but sometimes necessary, especially where livelihoods are at stake.
Anyway, SIPTU will hopefully see sense and you won't be left high and dry on thursday, with a bit of luck.
[posted by: Mr Angry]Posted 4 years ago # -
I hope people realize that drivers are merely paid to drive the buses, not dispatch them, count the money recovered from the fare-box and other sources, repair them, maintain them, et al.
BTW, are there such things as contracts between the unions and the management? It sure would be nice to see what SIPTU is reacting to that could be construed as a contract violation, and to know if the government has the power to nullify contracts willy-nilly.Posted 4 years ago # -
Also, are the days gone of when they would use army troop lorries to substitute for the buses in the event of a strike? I remember that happening during the early 80s when Phibsborough Garage went on strike…
Posted 4 years ago # -
Yes indeed AL,one of the great childhood memories.
Petrol engined Bedford RL soft skinned lorries usually worked on peak-time journies as in the present Nitelink routings.
However they usually only appeared after at least a week had passed by and usually more to do with Political image than anythin else.
Plenty of photo-op`s for the media too as soldiers helped oul wan`s up the steps into the lorry.
Unlikely to be seen again in our lifetime as the awful probability of the opul wan falling on her swiss and claiming off the Dept of Defence would be to much to bear.
In addition,private car ownership and useage has exploded so "trucking it" would be a no need job.
As for contracts in the US sense,no they do not exist.
In America pretty much every employment has its annual contract negotiations which set the pay and conditions for the next fiscal year.
In Europe this annualization is pretty much unknown and instead sectors tend to have agreements of a general nature which can be reviewed and updated as required.
The fact that CIE has and continues to be a political animal has determined every single aspect of the groups business.
So when Mr Brennan points to failings within CIE he is actually pointing directly at the Irish Political system and particularly Fianna Fail`s dominance of the scene over 50 years.Posted 4 years ago # -
Image is everything these days and the customer is King. BAC's long record of unreliability may yet be it's undoing. Like Alek, I too remember army lorries but perhaps with less nostalgia. Punters like me have long memories of being treated with contempt and it may be that track record of disputes both official and unofficial over the years that has the company facing the loss of a quarter of it's territory now.
So what do they do ? They promise to bash the travelling public again. Even if tomorrow's strike is averted, your image has suffered another hammer blow and you have added once again to the perception of the public that Dublin Bus is unreliable. The future competition must be delighted with you.
[posted by: MPU]Posted 4 years ago # -
If the SIPTU gobs**te officials hadn't called this unofficial strike action they would have had today off, instead of being inside negotiating. What a shower. They'l prove the Minister right before too long. Well done lads for playing exactly into the Minister's hands.
It's time your membership copped on that you are a shower of troublemakers with nothing to offer (exactly the same as the Minister), and sack you all from officialdom.
You do NOT have my support!Posted 4 years ago # -
If there is a strike and I have to take the day off because of uncertainty in getting home from work (I don't care about getting in to work), how will the SIPTU gobs**te officials compensate me for my loss of pay or a days enforced leave?
Take a hike, you shower of wasters, and let someone onto the stage that can represent the membership in a positive and constructive manner. You have my utter contempt.Posted 4 years ago # -
Hopefully some SIPTU folks are lurkin around this board.
As yesterdays events out at the Airport proved,the internal wrangling within Liberty Hall is now seriously affecting the orginizations ability to function as a representative body.
Time for reflection boy`s.....smell the coffee...wonder if Starbucks will be Unionized.......?????Posted 4 years ago # -
What a shower of clowns SIPTU officialdom are!
Well at least they've decided NOT to strike for nothing, instead of going on strike for nothing.
They could have saved themselves a bank holiday and red faces by staying out of the dead end they drove up.Posted 4 years ago # -
RS...be careful,the strike has been called off by SIPTU`s officer branch under it`s rule 169.
The stage is now set for not alone confrontation tomorrow at SOME BAC garages but also for a breakaway faction to be formed aligned with the militant Busworkers Action Group.
SIPTU Leaders now have one hell of a fight on their hands both in their Aviation Branch and on the Roads tooPosted 4 years ago # -
But hey...every cloud has a silver etc.....At least the Customers King,MPU won`t have to don the bicycle clips and point his bum at the sky.... : )Posted 4 years ago #
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How about another civil war instead...? because the true "shower of wasters" at Kildare Street are the ones who are really out to screw over the public.Posted 4 years ago #
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Well...there is the local and European elections coming up.
I would appeal to you all to put your vote where your mouth is and press those buttons. If you don't and FF/PD get the same amount of local/euro seats because all the yahoos who would stick the ticket in for a donkey wearing a green rosette vote and you don't then how can you complain afterwards? Alek's "polititians" only arise because they have the people hoodwinked into believing "ah sure they're all the same".
They are not.
[posted by: Luaswatcher]Posted 4 years ago # -
Calm down now...for all bus and rail service shall operate normally on St. Patrick's Hangover Day. According to this article on RTE's web site, the strike has been called off by those shower of nice lads at SIPTU (the general officers in particular). Ye may breathe a sigh of relief...
Posted 4 years ago # -
Interesting article. i'm not sure that you can believe anything put out in the media as journalists tend to go for the easy option and don't seem to be able to research their subjects well. Especially TV.
Did you know that some drivers didn't show up for work? It affected the evening 39X services, YES, I said the EVENING services.
They had all day to show up for work and yet they still arsed around and managed to muck up the schedules in the evening.
These mavaricks and their union turkey heads will manage yet to let the Minister for Stupid Statements To the Gobs**te Press have his way.
We'll all end up much worse as a result.Posted 4 years ago #
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