BUSRAGE Discussions » General Issues
Racism
(29 posts)-
I think its ironic at the moment that Dublin Bus are adveristing a no racism ad campaign on their buses. I recently used the 39 bus going to Blanch and the driver was very rude and ignorant to 2 black ladies with buggies. Has anyone else found drivers to be this way?Posted 5 years ago #
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If you had to put up with the ignorance and refusal to comply with the rules of people with buggy's you wouldn't be long losing your sunny disposition.It is nothing to do with the colour of there skin but the fact that only one buggy is allowed on the bus and the other has to be folded.They know this but continue to try and get 2 buggies on,which then hold's the driver and bus up for long period's while one of them takes the baby and the 20 odd shopping bag's off the buggy and fold's it.It should be done before the bus get's there and that's why even the most laid back of us can lose the rag occassionally.
[posted by: Graham]Posted 5 years ago # -
Deborah...I know not whether you have a baby but the message needs to go out very clear and loud.
THE SALOON OF A MOVING BUS IS ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS PLATFORMS IMAGINABLE IN WHICH TO HAVE AN IMPROPERLY POSITIONED OCCUPIED BUGGY.
In my own opinion this Low-Floor concept is being hi-jacked by a rent-a-buggy mob many of whom will INSIST on ignoring Busdrivers requests to fold and stow their buggies in the hope that the driver will simply shrug the shoulders and drive on.
The safety of the infants should be the primary concern of the Parent/Guardian and if they are not prepared to accept this responsibility then I as a Busdriver am certainly not going to.
One Bus = One Occcupied buggy. It really is that simple.
Bus Atha Cliath need to be far more forthright in Publicising this and also reminding buggy-people that the area is in fact for DISABLED customers and is available to buggy users only if not required by such disabled persons.
This is a rapidly worsening situation and will end up costing Bus Atha Cliath very dearly indeed some day soon !!!Posted 5 years ago # -
What is up with the accusation of racism…did the bus driver hurl racist epithets at the two women in question? If not, then the bus driver was not being racist, I suspect. I would not blame the bus driver for getting rather testy about two passengers who flagrantly step all over bus rules…
To be utterly frank, there are many passengers that ought to pay attention to the anti-racism campaign, or failing that, at least keep their mouths shut and simply ride the bus to their destination quietly.
As for the “rent-a-buggy” crowd, then were I a driver, I would pass them by and refuse to board them—if I recall right, drivers still can exercise that right at their discretion. And taking up spaces for the disabled out of pure selfishness? Eject the offending passenger at the next stop.Posted 5 years ago # -
One further thought oin this.An occasion arose recently where a low floor bus operating on a Cony rd route had a mother and buggy occupying the wheelchair space when a disabled customer was needind the space.The driver politely asked the mother to remove her child and fold the buggy.His request was refused with the mother claiming equal right's to this space.He asked a few more time's and was told to F off.He called his controller who cowardly refused to give him an instruction and left him to sort it for himself.The driver had no option but to explain to the intending passanger that there was nothing he could do as this mother refused to budge and if he tried to force her he could be done under equality legislation.The disabled person allowed the bus to continue vowing that he would not be letting it go.DB need to come out on and state it's position on this space once and for all and legally protect it's staff.I've been accused of being racist over this space and it's far from a laughing matter for me.I now drive straight by anyonbe with buggy's if i have one on.I get into more row's over this space and am even getting into row's with people whilst driving non low floor buses cos they wqant to fold the buggy inside the bus where there is simply no room to do this.The reason it happen's with foreign people is simple because Irish people,by and large, have there buggy's folded before the bus even arrive's,no quibble.The way it should be.
[posted by: Graham]Posted 5 years ago # -
Sorry for spelling error's by the way,I can't type when I'm angry
[posted by: Graham]Posted 5 years ago # -
Graham.You are so very correct in what you say.
My understanding presently is that there is a form of internal divide between sections of management in 59.
What was originally a desirable and eminently workable "Disabled" fiunction has now been watered down into some form of dangerous nonsense.
You are again quite right in calling for a CLEAR and definitive Company Policy on this issue.
It is NOT something which should be at the Drivers Discretion,which tends to be a much debated concept anyway.
My view is simple: One Wheelchair OR if space not being used by that ONE OCCUPIED BUGGY. All other buggies MUST fold.That is the present official Company policy and it is in EVERYBODY`s interest for ALL drivers to impliment this.
The current wide range of loadings permitted by different drivers is going to end in disaster and then we shall see exactly how much Driver Discretion is tolerated by the Company AND the Law.Posted 5 years ago # -
Graham, you are probably right to say it is mostly foreigners. but i don't blame them. Why? because the information is not given!!!Posted 5 years ago #
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I'd agree, Anja, that DB haven't exactly publicised the regulations for customers using this space, however,as soon as they've travelled on a low floor bus for the first time they will be informed if the of the regulation's if it is already occupied.However ,I find that most people know the regulations but are just chancing their arm.The thing is they,and many Irish mothers,get lazy and wait in hope that the space is free,which lead's to greatly increased bus stop dwell time's when it isn't.So when your bus is next late arriving and there are a few buggies stowed on the rack,you can rest assured the driver had plenty of grief getting them stowed.
[posted by: Graham]Posted 5 years ago # -
I am a mixed-race (french, black and native american) female who may relocate to Dublin with my British husband. Must I worry about racism aimed at myself or my daughter? She is 12 and from a previous marriage. Must I fear she will be mistreated in schools and not accepted by other children due to her race?
These are huge concerns for me.Posted 4 years ago # -
As far as I'm concerned you should have no worries
That's not to say that some gobs**tes (ignorant idiots) won't open their mouths and let you know how ignorant and stupid they are. You'll get them everywhere.
If you really want reassurance why don't you contact some of the schools and colleges.
Here is a link that you can use to search for a school in the area you were thinking of moving to. The best thing to do might be to contact a number of them and get information.
http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?category=10917&feature=epl&language=EN
It's part of the website of the Department of Education.Posted 4 years ago # -
Anja.
I reckon if you living in the UK then things will be similar over here....Mind you If its a good public transport service you are lookin for then I would think again...!Posted 4 years ago # -
I must admit, I don't enjoy driving low-floor buses and dread the sight of buggies. I've had several arguments and stand-offs with lazy, inconsiderate pram pushers (I find Irish people worst). Normally, I politely request that the buggy is folded up and stored in the appropriate compartment. More often than not, the reply is, "There's no point. I'm only going a few stops down the road". They obviously presume that I'll just accept that and give in to them. Unfortunately, I then (politely of course) have to explain the dangers of carrying more than one occupied buggy. Ocasionally, they then get aggressive and accuse me of being Adolf Hitler. Many of their fellow passengers nod in agreement. There's no point in calling control because as far as my superiors are concerned, it's not their problem. However, if an inspector was to board the bus and see two open buggies, I'd get a good bollocking. The driver just can't win. The simple solution is to ban ALL occupied buggies. For decades, mammies had to fold up their prams when they saw the bus coming and nobody had a bloody problem. It's just pure laziness.
On the subject of wheelchair accessibility, I had a rather unfortunate incident a few months ago. I was already carrying one wheelchair user, when lo and behold, another one wanted to board at the next stop. Obviously, I didn't request that she fold up her wheelchair and find a seat upstairs. Alas, I couldn't let her on the bus. This lady was particularily militant and refused to let the bus leave. Worse still, it was a Sunday, piddling rain and the next bus wouldn't have been due for almost an hour. Eventually, she relented and allowed me to continue the journey, leaving her huffing and puffing about ringing her local TD, Joe Duffy, Gerry Ryan, etc. I felt an absolute bastard. The other passengers evidentally agreed, whinging and tut-tutting as they alighted. Give me an old bus anyday.
[posted by: Mr Angry]Posted 4 years ago # -
I was waiting for the 123 at crumlin hospital when a woman came along in a wheel buggy? You know the type with the two small wheels at the front? She was all excited that she could finally go into town on her own. An av pulled in on 121 and the driver refused to let her on as he said health and safety reasons state that the 4 wheels must be symetrical or else the vehicle will not be allowed on the bus. I wonder does this apply to 3 wheeled buggys? The woman took this to mean all buses and went home disappointed.
[posted by: A2000]Posted 4 years ago # -
Yes A2K that is indeed the position.
The Low Floor Wheelchair location is designed specifically for the conveyance of a "Standard" Manual or Powered WHEELCHAIR.
Bus Atha Cliath did not just decide on this out of Bloody Mindedness but it is a generally accepted industry standard.
We also have a Disability Advisor who is a wheelchair user himself as well as being a Bus User.
In the Driver Briefings which He provides his message is clear,Standard Wheelchair ONLY.
This is also the message which is reinforced by the Irish Wheelchair Association in its dealings with its members.
The type of device you refer to is a Powered Mobility Aid and is somewhat different in concept to a wheelchair.
As with all public service issues there has to be an element of the Greater Good principle whereby those who can meet the requirements of the system benefit accordingly and this applies to the Disabled also.
However in our line of business it appears that the individual Driver will always have to carry the can for what appear to some to be Blody Minded decisions.
I would suggest that you contact the Irish Wheelchair Association for details of the types of wheelchair which may be safely utilized on LF Buses.Posted 4 years ago # -
But what about the various types of pram?
[posted by: A2000]Posted 4 years ago # -
ONE Pram or Child bearing "Buggy" is only accepted,presuming no Disabled person is in situ,in its UNFOLDED occupied state as long as it is attended by a responsible person and in the recommended position (Longitudally,Brake on)
It is HIGHLY dangerous to have an occcupied buggy placed Crossways as it is thus in its most unstable condition in the event of an emergency stop and also has its handles or footrest protruding into the gangway where they lie in wait for some unsuspecting elderly/disabled person to trip over them.
Again the stipulation is simple and unambigous and I will not waste any time in arguement or negotiation with those people (Male and Female) who seek to force their way on to the bus.
A favorite tactic is to assure the driver that the buggy will be folded when on the bus and then to simply stand mutely refusing to fold.
This simply results in this driver switching off the engine and equally mutely refusing to move until parent/guardian displays their sense of responsibility for their Infantile charge.
It may not win THEIR approval but it maintains my accident free status and I am happy to report is recieving an increasing amount of Praise from Non-Buggy users,with and without chizzlers.Posted 4 years ago # -
The only problem I find with switching off the engine is that a "who's gonna blink first" situation often occurs between me and the buggy pusher. I never give in, but it gets tedious after a few minutes.
[posted by: Mr Angry]Posted 4 years ago # -
But most prams have 3 wheels which are not symetrical(1 at front) so if theses are acceptable and a disabled carraige that dous not have symetrical wheels is not acceptable is this not a hint of discrimination against disabled?
[posted by: a2000]Posted 4 years ago # -
No A2K it is not.
For these actions to be termed as "Discrimination" would require some form of collusion on all our parts to refuse service to a person on the grounds of their disability.
That is not the case with BAC`s policy.
As I said it IS the present policy as agreed with the IWA and sanctioned by the Depts of Transport/Health and many other agencies.
If and when that Policy changes I will impliment whatever the requirement is.
A quick visit to central London may well provide a stark warning of the Dangers inherent in UNRESTRICTED carriage of occupied and often unattended wheeled devices.Indeed on some fora the "Abled" are no popping up an telling of how they are now being edged off the newer "Accessible" LF routes.
Every silver lining nestles securely inside a cloud I suppose..?
Having said all that it is also worth pondering on how Aircoach managed to get a startup licence with absolutely NO facilities for disabled Airport bound users whatever at a time when the technology was most definitely available.
Or do the "Privates" have an exemption from all that oul stuff ????Posted 4 years ago # -
But if the person in the carraige and a person with a 3 wheeled pram were at the bus stop then the pram would be let on and the disabled carraige not? Drivers are also afraid to say no to foreign nationals for fear of being accused of racism. People with prams also have to let 5 or 6 buses on the 123 pass as passangers are standing in the area supplied for such apparatus. I was on crutches for 6 months and attending James hospital and I never got further than the ticket machine on the 123.
[posted by: A2000]Posted 4 years ago # -
SOME Drivers A2k....
I`m afraid the scenario you quote with the pair of 3 wheeled devices is true but it owes more to the sudden arrival and popularity of the 3 wheel Joggers Buggy from the USA.
U are correct on the Foreign National point but that tends to have more to do with the Drivers own self-confidence levels and his/her ability to retain control of the Bus and Passenger situation.
I will at all times attempt to steer a commonsense course,but at day`s end I am the responsible person for the bus and My decision stands.
If ANY passenger is unhappy with that then they have full right to complain and seek a response or policy change from the Company.
In case you think thats not possible then have regard to the speed with which BAC removed the Small Yellow "Thumbs-UP" Let Buses Pull Out sticker from the Rears of its fleet.
This removal was it seems in response to a SINGLE complaint from a foreign National stating that in THEIR culture the Thumbs-Up gesture was an offensive one.
So A2k your Crutches scenario should equally merit a fast-track response...????Posted 4 years ago # -
I must admit that when I'm on a low-floor route, I normally come into conflict with at least one passenger a week over buggies, wheelchairs etc.
I've been accused of all sorts of things from racism to Nazism, but when it comes to rule breaking on my bus, I don't discriminate. Provided that I treat the offending passenger with respect (whether they deserve it or not), the rule book and BAC bye-laws can be adhered to at all times. I've spoken to several drivers who won't argue with non-nationals or members of the travelling community etc because they're scared of being labled racist. When I'm accused of being racist or unfair in any way, I just whip out a pen and paper, write down the Customer Service phone number and tell them to address any complaints there.
[posted by: Mr Angry]Posted 4 years ago # -
You have people pulling the race card over there now? Toss those derelicts in the Liffey. They wouldn’t pull that nonsense with the regular man on the street because they know what they would get. Are they forgetting whose country they are in now? (Wow, I wonder what would happen to me if I went to their country and cried “racist”, would I be laughed at or worse?)
The race card is the underhanded tactic of the ignorant. I am horrified that such nonsense is going on in Ireland now. And the inevitable “guilty until proven innocent” atmosphere that occurs whenver such an accusation is levied has to stop now…Posted 4 years ago # -
BAC removed the Small Yellow "Thumbs-UP" Let Buses Pull Out sticker from the Rears of its fleet.
ONE complaint??!! That's upsetting. In Santa Clara, California, I believe you MUST let buses pull out.
I've seen people gun it when the bus indicator starts flashing. They should realise that 1) the bus will probably pull in at the next stop and you can then overtake it and 2) you're not going to lose much ground or time in the gridlock that is city traffic.
One generally gets a nice thumbs up from the driver when you let them pull out.Posted 4 years ago # -
I doubt it. The busus were just full, there are no seats near the front and people dont believe in letting the elderly and infirm sit dowm. I was once told you pay for travel on the bus and not for the seat.
[posted by: A2000]Posted 4 years ago # -
I have at least one argument a day over that bloody buggy space and I for one never back down on the issue no matter what the person's race or social standing is.They travel on a DB bus then they follow DB rules.However there are unfortunately quite a sizeable amount of driver's who just ignore it.Attitude's of buggy pusher's will not change until the rules are enforced the same by all of us.I'd encourage paasengers to support thier driver when he takes a stand on this as it's in everyone interest's that rules are followed and the inevitable argument's are holding you up too.Not likely but no harm in wishing
[posted by: Graham]Posted 4 years ago # -
Wow!
This is some topic. From Racism to prams, buggies, wheelchairs, standing spaces, and thumbs up signs.
I reckon that buses should have right of way and priority when pulling away from bus stops. They do in other countries..........Oh, I forgot...... those other countries have a public transport infrastructure and a committment to public transport. We don't. Séamus only wants to privatise a quarter of the bus routes as public transport policy, and break up CIE.
Good thinking Séamus, what then?????Posted 4 years ago # -
u black bastards
[posted by: nickamick]Posted 3 years ago #
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