BUSRAGE Discussions: Forum: Light Rail

BUSRAGE Discussions: Forum: Light Rail - Recent Topics http://busrage.com/forum/ BUSRAGE Discussions: Forum: Light Rail - Recent Topics en Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:56:47 +0000 Anonymous on "Group claims airport rail link will save billions" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1164#post-1164 Tue, 08 Jul 2003 07:53:23 +0000 Anonymous 1164@http://busrage.com/forum/ from Irish Examiner Group claims airport rail link will save billions By Seán McCárthaigh A TRANSPORT campaign group claims it could provide an alternative rail system to the proposed metro link to Dublin Airport that would save the Exchequer billions of euro. Platform 11 estimates that its proposal for an over-ground link to the airport, incorporating existing railway track, could be built for just €350m. The group points out that its AirRail Express option would provide a link cheaper and sooner than the revised €2.5 billion cost of the Government’s metro plans. “In addition, it will not cause any disruption to the commercial life of Dublin city during construction as well as integrating fully into the DART, Luas and Inter-City rail,” said spokesperson Thomas Sheridan. He said the proposal was based on proven international practice of having a heavy rail line serve a major airport. Mr Sheridan said such a line in Dublin would not just help link the airport to Dublin city centre but to entire regions of the country. He pointed out that similar system already operated successfully at airports in Frankfurt, London Stansted, Manchester, Amsterdam and Milan. The group vehemently opposes the Government’s preferred option of a metro link from the city centre to the airport because it would not integrate with the existing main rail network. “The proposed airport metro concept is based on getting people out of Dublin Airport into central Dublin and is not a transport solution. It is just sending the problem 10km south,” said Mr Sheridan. He pointed out that AirRail Express would involve track being built almost entirely on open, flat countryside, compared to the Government’s metro option which would see the line cut through heavily-developed urban areas. For this reason, the group claims its proposal could be delivered in a shorter timeframe and at a lower cost. “The real strength of Platform 11’s AirRail Express Network is that it delivers an integrated rail transport solution to a vast area of the nation with economic, tourism and social gains to anywhere in Ireland where a rail line exists,” said Mr Sheridan [posted by: Owen Harris] Al on "Bus Eireann—Sandyford Luas to Wicklow?" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/4437#post-4437 Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:22:56 +0000 Al 4437@http://busrage.com/forum/ Yes, it's an actual service, with three buses each way...<a href=http://www.buseireann.ie/site/news_centre/travel_reports.asp?action=view&news_id=386>timetable here</a>... Anyone use this service? Seems to me to be a quite unusual setup, designed to specifically sell the Luas. Takes an hour and ten minutes to run between Sandyford and Wicklow, going via localities such as Newtownmountkennedy and Newcastle. Of course, it is noteworthy that when the Luas Green Line was still part of the general railway network, you could ride a train on it all the way to Wicklow instead. But I suppose that's what happens with pee-pee-pees... Al on "You think the Luas will reach Bray?" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/4404#post-4404 Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:03:12 +0000 Al 4404@http://busrage.com/forum/ Was reading the <a href="http://www.unison.ie/bray_people/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1499903&issue_id=13226" target="_new">Bray People article</a> on the subject, and it seems a bit out of the realm to me. IMHO, the government blew it big-time by not making the Green Line into DART, but that,s water under the bridge now, I suppose. So now Bray is supposed to have two separate railway lines, the light-rail version (on which you used to be able to get a train to Wicklow, too) serving the new planned Town Centre, where they are supposed to be digging up the golf links. Well, in principle, I suppose it isn,t so bad, but you,ll have summer travellers getting confused when they end up by Main Street, of course. Hopefully, common sense might prevail and they,ll put the northern end of the Green Line underground and make it part of this new "Metro", whatever that,s going to look like... Of course, this will also mean that more dents will be made in the business of the route 45 bus; I just hope they don,t get rid of that and do something crazy like extend the 7B to Bray to replace it, and turning the Deansgrange/Cabinteely segment into the 7C or something...(bah, I shouldn,t be giving DB crazy ideas like that) <img src=http://www.tag-board.com/smilies/sick.gif> admin on "Related: Metro plan ruled out as too costly" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1395#post-1395 Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:56:48 +0000 admin 1395@http://busrage.com/forum/ This article appeared in the <a href="http://www.thepost.ie/">Sunday Business Post</a> yesterday (19/10/2003), and seems to confirm what we've been saying about the metro - Brennan's plans are deeply flawed. -------------- [<a href="http://www.thepost.ie/web/DocumentView/did-507517094-pageUrl--2FHome.asp" target="_new">link</a>] Metro plan ruled out as too costly By Niamh Connolly The Dublin metro project has been ruled out as too expensive in a confidential consultant's report for the Department of Finance, The Sunday Business Post has learned. The Minister for Transport, Seamus Brennan, is facing a tough political battle to convince his cabinet colleagues that the ¤2.4 billion plan for the first phase of a Dublin metro system is viable. The latest financial study deals a serious blow to Brennan's metro proposal. It argues for cheaper alternatives to the metro, such as a mainline rail spur from the Belfast line. The transport minister will, however, present a final proposal for an airport metro to cabinet before Christmas. The airport line is the first phase in the ambitious Dublin county metro project. An intense political debate is expected at cabinet level. Brennan is resolutely behind a modern integrated rail system for the capital that links up with Luas and can be extended to highly-populated commuter areas. Abusiness plan has been submitted by the minister to the cabinet's transport subcommittee, based on the Railway Procurement Agency's proposals for a public private partnership metro contract. It involves repayments of ¤300 to ¤400 million over a 25-year leasing deal, to be paid when the metro goes into operation. Brennan told this newspaper: "I am in favour of a metro - not as a one-off link from the airport to the city centre,but as phas e one of nine or ten phases to be developed countywide in the future. "On its own, the airport route is not an economic proposition. But it is if it is completed on a city-wide basis that is fully integrated with Luas. "I must convince the cabinet that in the current economic climate we should be building this.The Department of Finance is examining the submission we have made, and it is not going to write a cheque for ¤2.4 billion." The RPA's latest metro plan revised initial estimates of ¤4.8 billion down to ¤2.4 billion by reducing the number of stops and design specifications. In a related development, RPA chairman Padraic White said the board was taking no decision in relation to holeboring work for preliminary soil investigations until there was "greater clarification" in relation to the metro.The RPA has a budget of ¤9 million from the Department ofTransport to cover metro-related research work. Geotech said last week that it expected to start work before Christmas. Al on "Metro article" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1427#post-1427 Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:16:31 +0000 Al 1427@http://busrage.com/forum/ Funny about that 10 billion proposal for the Metro (whatever was supposed to be included in that), but how many billions will be spent on motorways when all is said and done? And guess whatthose motorways will not do Dublin any good, unless it is to jam it up with more cars and trucks (and if you regard such as good). I myself am quite disgusted over the whole fiasco. So, absolutely nothing gets done about the increasing congestion in Dublin city centre now, all so that they can build motorways connecting all of the major cities, which in and of itself is a further excuse to continue the dismantling of the railway network around the country. When are these fools in Leinster House going to wake up, when the traffic is so dense that there is zero motion within a fifty-mile radius?? Probably take fifty years to wake them up, like in the USAbut not even in the US have all cities woken up. Wake me when its overI am thoroughly disgusted. Al on "Luas Red Line Couldn't Kill Bus Route 90" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/3442#post-3442 Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:02:38 +0000 Al 3442@http://busrage.com/forum/ I have to give DB credit on that one...they kept the 90 running, despite all of the predictions that it would be cancelled like the route 8 when the Luas Red Line came on-line. Of course, their wonderful "surplus" aided them in keeping it running, right? Yeah, right...(hey, I'm sure they gave the "DART is duplicate service" excuse when cancelling the 8; but see how it doesn't work with the route 90, which is still surviving quite well. Do the same for the 8, O DB Demigods; ye have had a "surplus" for two years running and can well afford it...) Red Al on "Daily Luas Crash?" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/2897#post-2897 Wed, 27 Oct 2004 05:24:17 +0000 Red Al 2897@http://busrage.com/forum/ Morning folks, I got up late yesterday so the crash didn't affect me. but another gobs***e hit the luas this morning and I was left standing on the platform near the square for 20 mins!!!! Grrrr I'm wondering will this be a daily thing, and is anyone taking bets? Red Al Red Al on "Red Line - A week in Review" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/2814#post-2814 Wed, 06 Oct 2004 05:22:52 +0000 Red Al 2814@http://busrage.com/forum/ The Red line has been operating for a little over a week now and I've been on it a total of five times, three times during the "free" period and twice this week. I'd like to cover several issues and would appreciate your comments on them. 1. Over crowding and "packing them in" this was obviously a major issue last week as everyone decided to "give it a go" and not have to pay. The other major overcrowding point is Heuston Station (inbound). When I got on the tram at the Red Cow this morning I found it fairly empty (all seats gone though, no surprise there). This was at 8:15. There was a man with an RPA ID on the tram and I thought "o good, he'll stop too many people getting on. However, when we got to Heuston he just said "move back there please" and hopped off. Thus I had a repeat of what happened to me last week, about 50 people tried to get into a space suitable for ten! 2. Timings: trip time from the Red Cow to Abbey St was a little over 1/2 an hour - which is somewhat better than the busses as they get caught on the Naas road, Johns road/inchicore (depends on the route) and the north quays/ James's hospital. 3. Health and Safety: There is a footbridge over the Naas road linking the Ibis (budget hotel) with the Red cow stop which I think should NOT be open. There is undressed concrete on the bridge platform and the steps are simply (loose) planks. IT actually sways in the wind and you can feel it rattle as you cross. More like a fairground attraction for scaring the kids than a public convenience. The other thing is the footbridge terminates in an embankment forcing a 250M walk to the platform. This could be cut down by at least half if a small break was made in the embankment (which is only mud atm) and a little tarmac laid down. 4. Inspectors: As I’ve said I've been on it twice this week but haven't seen any inspectors yet. Still its early days. ON the bright side Monday evening saw a guard (with equally large - presumably off duty mate) get on a Heuston which seemed to prompt an awful lot of people to get off in a hurry. Far be it for me to say but that looks suspicious... 5. Ticket prices: I had an Annual bus only pass. I rang up on Monday to see about upgrading and was told it was only 44 euro. Now considering that the price of a monthly pass is 65 euro (to cover all red zones) it seemed like a good idea for 3 months worth! Well, that’s my experience so far, feel free to comment Red Al Al on "Yippee, Bus/Luas integrated tickets." http://busrage.com/forum/topic/2455#post-2455 Mon, 05 Jul 2004 19:27:39 +0000 Al 2455@http://busrage.com/forum/ Wowzers...that's almost as good of an idea as integrated BAC/DART tickets or Bus Éireann/IE tickets, stuff like that. Get 'em <a href="http://www.dublinbus.ie/news_centre/timetable_and_route_news.asp?action=view&news_id=347" target="_new">while they're hot</a>... Al on "NITL to conduct "independent evaluation" of Luas" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/2041#post-2041 Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:58:59 +0000 Al 2041@http://busrage.com/forum/ <a href="http://www.onbusiness.ie/2004/0318/luas.html" target="_new">From OnBusiness.ie</a> Yes, our friends at the National Institute for Transport and Logistics is doing a separate audit for Luas, mainly because costs rose from €228 million to about €800 million. (No qualms about the cost of this evaluation of theirs, though. Reminds me of the "investigation" that the great state of New Jersey is engaging in over its own 34-mile <a href="http://www.riverline.com" target="_new">"River Line"</a> system, which ended up costing almost $1 billion.) The NITL is also conducting a general audit of the Irish transportation system, saying stuff like the large investment in roads could have "implications for the future of some interurban rail lines and regional air services". Yeah...the more jammed the roads get, the more we'll need of the rail end of things, that's for sure...! not to mention more fines payable to the EU due to increased greenhouse-gas generation... Al on "RPA suddenly re-awakened to Metro following visit to system in Madrid" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1123#post-1123 Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:58:44 +0000 Al 1123@http://busrage.com/forum/ <center><a href=http://www.onbusiness.ie/2003/0618/rail.html>http://www.onbusiness.ie/2003/0618/rail.html</a></center> For those of you who do not know what the acronym RPA stands for, it means Railway Procurement Agency. This is, of course, the same agency that continues to stand in the way of the <a href=http://www.platform11.org/prd.html>Atlantic Rail Corridor</a> (generally the half-used and abandoned railway lines between Limerick and Sligo) and threatened closure of the old Waterford, Limerick and Western Railways main line (commonly known as the current Limerick-Waterford-Rosslare Harbour line), as well as closing rail lines to Kingscourt (Tara Mines) and Foynes, Co. Limerick in recent months, among other malefactions. A sudden revitalisation has just transpired within the same RPA, after a recent visit to the Metro system in Madrid, Spain. Dublins own planned Metro has gotten a sudden chop in cost estimates, from 4.8 billion all the way down to 2.6 billion! Thats a drop of almost fifty percent! In addition, instead of taking seven years to build this Metro in Dublin, the estimate has now dropped to between 2½ to 3 years! Amazing, this sudden change of heart from the RPA. I personally am totally stunned; I dont know how you all feel, but chime in at any point. Perhaps the EU got on the RPAs case a bit? That is what I myself suspect. Would the same pressure be forthcoming in regards to further rail (re-)expansion plus better management of bus routes? We can only wait and see at this point Ray on "Down to Earth" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1721#post-1721 Thu, 15 Jan 2004 08:27:00 +0000 Ray 1721@http://busrage.com/forum/ Here are some comparisons to consider: Mars * Earth to Mars: Approx. 77 Million kms * NASA Spirit Cost: Approx. 321 Million * Launched: 10-06-2003 * Landed: Jan 2004 * Status: Working --------------------------- Luas: * Length of first two lines: Approx. 25kms * Luas cost so far: Approx. 675 million * Construction of Line A, commenced in September 1999 * Status: Not working Michael Everson on "Nix's one-change rail plan 10 months on" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1659#post-1659 Sat, 03 Jan 2004 16:49:04 +0000 Michael Everson 1659@http://busrage.com/forum/ I don't know whether anything has happened with this, but at the end of February 2003 I was so impressed that I posted James Nix's article to my web site. See <a href="http://www.evertype.com/misc/dart/" rel="nofollow">http://www.evertype.com/misc/dart/</a> and if you are like me, every time you see it you will say yes, yes, yes, please, please, please.... Al on "End of the line for Luas or just more hype…?" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1329#post-1329 Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:16:09 +0000 Al 1329@http://busrage.com/forum/ See this <a href=http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2003/09/01/story903786363.asp>Irish Examiner article</a> for more details. This article includes the (remote?) possibility of Luas Line A being converted to an underground linethat is, within the next twenty years. Has everything turned so blasted sensational when it comes to transportation projects in the media? Honestly, I can see Line B becoming a so-called metro what with it actually being based on a former heavy-rail line, but absolutely not Line A. The costs to submerge Line A would be utterly insane, especially within the city centre. I can see attempting to remove a lot of the problem areas, such as Steevens Lane, the N7 at the junction of Davitt Road, plus the Red Cow Roundabout, but that line will never become a full-fledged underground linethere has been too much investment in it. What makes me laugh is an tUasal Brennan saying things like Luas is gone and in the same breath saying that he himself doesn't want a patchwork quilt of rail lines versus an integrated system. Well then, why listen to the French consultants at all?? Shouldve built the blasted thing as a five-foot-three gauge underground DART to begin with. >:-( No more back-pedallingget on with it. Al on "Luas & Connex" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1141#post-1141 Sat, 28 Jun 2003 02:06:33 +0000 Al 1141@http://busrage.com/forum/ Well, what did I try to tell them folks on the <a href=http://groups.msn.com/irishrailwaynews>Irish Railway News</a> message boards. It isnt quite time yet for them to eat a hearty dish of crow, but at least get your favourite species lined-up, either jackdaw, rook, raven, carrion crow, hooded crow, perhaps magpie In related news, over in Boston, Massachusetts, USA, things are gearing up for the Massachusetts Bay Commuter Railroad, another Connex venture, to take over commuter operations of the <a href=http://www.mbta.com>Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority</a> over from current operator <a href=http://www.amtrak.com>Amtrak</a> very soon. There are even rumblings of regret over that decision. Amtrak did not re-bid for the contract, incidentally. Al on "Off-topic--LUAS to be slow (70 km/h max)" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/910#post-910 Thu, 08 May 2003 05:27:15 +0000 Al 910@http://busrage.com/forum/ For those of you who put their hopes in Luas bringing some relief to commuters in Dublin, stay those hopes awhile, because the top speed of the trams they're ordering for this fine line is less than 44 mph. That's slower than what the bus is capable of...and certainly will not have the intestinal fortitude of beating the automobile, except (perhaps) in traffic situations...I always said that it ought to have been DART myself... <ul><li><a href="http://www.luas.ie/plan/design.asp">http://www.luas.ie/plan/design.asp</a></ul> Al on "LUAS and 51B/78A clash in James' Street corridor" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/773#post-773 Sat, 04 Jan 2003 03:03:32 +0000 Al 773@http://busrage.com/forum/ I figured I'd put the text of the DB news announcement here too...--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Possible delays to Routes 51B and 78A Due to Luas Project Construction in James's Street, Dublin Bus expects delays to our services on Routes 51B and 78A from Tuesday 7th January 2003.We will monitor our services for the immediate few days after the commencement of construction. If in the event of major delays to our services we will consider diverting our buses during the morning peak via:South Circular Road, Conyngham Road to the City or Inchicore Road, Memorial Road, Con Colbert Road, John's Road to the city.Dublin Bus regrets any inconvenience caused to our customers. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Wow, they actually *regret* inconvenience to passengers? I wonder who taught them to say that. BTW, didn't they forget about possible interference with route 123?? <ul><li><a href="http://www.dublinbus.ie/news_centre/timetable_and_route_news.asp?action=view&news_id=158">www.dublinbus.ie/news_centre/timetable_and_route_news.asp?action=view&news_id=158</a></ul> Al on "Run former DUTC tram #253 on LUAS surface tracks once completed...?" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/538#post-538 Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:21:30 +0000 Al 538@http://busrage.com/forum/ Goodness knows, this tram isn't doing much of anything else lately. I know that it'll have to ride on 4'8½" bogies and have a pantograph on top instead of an electropole, but it'd be great to run this for excursions now and again. Al on "Ramp at Connolly Station closed to buses—due to LUAS construction" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/455#post-455 Fri, 12 Apr 2002 02:42:15 +0000 Al 455@http://busrage.com/forum/ Well, it's been a week since they re-routed the 90 and 748 off the ramp at Connolly Station, due to the LUAS going in there. I hope this LUAS business is worth it in the long run...picking up the bus to Heuston Station from Connolly is a step backward, going back to the days of route 24. Any call to get rid of the 90 yet, and to resurrect the 24, going northbound to Marino yet...? Al on "LUAS web site—“State of the art”, my foot!" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/367#post-367 Sat, 22 Dec 2001 02:25:06 +0000 Al 367@http://busrage.com/forum/ Just looked at the new LUAS web site...and couldn't belive my eyes, what with the claims of "state of the art transportation for Dublin". DUBLIN HAS HAD THIS KIND OF TRANSPORTATION ALREADY—THEY WERE CALLED TRAMS, AND CIE GOT RID OF THEM, DIDN'T THEY?!? At least I don't know of any tram services that were operated by CIE as opposed to the Dublin United Transportation Company...if there are any DUTC veterans out there in cyberspace, I'd like to hear from you all (assuming that there are a few left living—not meant to be disparaging)...The site also has comments about the Metro system which will be incorporated into the LUAS system (big mistake IMO, should have been DART), while also calling it "state of the art". Uh, that's *wrong*, fellas, because cities like London, England, Boston, USA as well as many, many other ones have had underground-running LRT systems and STILL DO to this day (prime example being the Boston USA one, called the "Green Line"; it's the oldest "subway" system in the USA also, pre-dating the NYC one). Also...since the LUAS will be built to 4 foot 8½ inch gauge (i.e. the British and international "standard" gauge), it will be incompatible with DART which uses 5 foot 3 inch gauge; most likely a deliberate move on the LUAS team's part. :(Why did I post this on the Busrage forum? Well, since the first line will involve street-running, it'll be pretty much the same as riding on a single-decker bus...and, besides, trams are what buses replaced anyway...