BUSRAGE Discussions: Forum: Deregulation

BUSRAGE Discussions: Forum: Deregulation - Recent Topics http://busrage.com/forum/ BUSRAGE Discussions: Forum: Deregulation - Recent Topics en Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:51:49 +0000 Al on "Alan Martin Coach services" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1120#post-1120 Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:59:35 +0000 Al 1120@http://busrage.com/forum/ <center><a href=http://www.amconline.ie/Home.asp>http://www.amconline.ie/Home.asp</a></center> Is there anyone on here who has used these bus services, i.e. anyone more coherent than alan who has just posted some comments about them on the negative side of things? Just judging by most of their timetables, it seems to me that they themselves wish to operate mostly profitable routes and thus keep their dependence on government assistance to a bare minimum. I noted on AMCs home page some comments about Dublin Bus putting pressure on them to reduce operations on their bus route serving Ballycoolin Estate. If AMC takes this to the EU, then things could get ugly. Any other reviews on this bus company? Al on "Cullen set to give privateers 15% of Dublin bus market" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/4942#post-4942 Sun, 01 Oct 2006 03:41:29 +0000 Al 4942@http://busrage.com/forum/ All here in this <a href=http://www.transport21.ie/MEDIA/Press_Releases/Extra_Buses_and_Role_for_Private_Operators.html>Transport 21 press release</a>...and I'm not too fond of it, of course. The private bus thing has been tried and tossed out in different markets. All that will happen is that the whole shebang, when it falls apart, would probably be handed over to Stagecoach or (gasp) Connex. Just fixing what ain't broken. Not to mention, this "Dublin Transport Authority" is merely a way to waste more money. The transport goes from being fully integrated to smashed into a million disparate parts that don't talkk to each other? Lovely. It's nice to get the new buses, of course, but how to get people to ride them when the implementation's so chaotic? Well, here's the text, in case it's not archived:<blockquote><hr>Extra Buses and Role for Private Operators Date: 28 September 2006 (100 news buses for Dublin Bus… 160 new buses for Bus Eireann… Next 15% growth in the Dublin bus market will go to private operators…) Transport Minister, Martin Cullen, T.D. has announced today (Thursday, 28th September 2006) that, based on his proposals the Government has made a number of significant decisions that will provide a solid basis for expanded and improved bus services for commuters, while ensuring better value for money for both passengers and taxpayers. The decisions made are in line with the Agreed Programme for Government. The Government decided that the regulation of the bus market and future decisions on the allocation of all public subsidies for bus services in the Greater Dublin area will be taken by the new Dublin Transport Authority, which is being established under legislation (that legislation is now at an advanced stage of preparation). The Dublin Transport Authority will have responsibility for contracting with all operators in the Dublin market, including Dublin Bus. It will also be responsible for monitoring the quality and cost of service by all operators and ensuring value for money on all routes. Under Transport 21, it is anticipated that there will be a requirement in the Greater Dublin Area for an expansion of the number of buses providing scheduled services. This will require an increase in the total number of buses to around 1,800, with a requirement for at least 200 extra buses over the next two years. The Government has decided to meet this initial requirement by:<ul><li>Providing up to €30m immediately to enable Dublin Bus to buy 100 additional buses for delivery over the period 2006/07; and</li> <li>Mandating the Dublin Transport Authority to procure the additional 100 buses from the private sector to provide services on new routes.</li></ul>Minister Cullen said: (The 100 buses procured from the private sector will form part of an initiative to facilitate the entry of new, private operators by awarding franchises to operate routes accounting for 15% (approx 200 buses) exclusively to such operators by way of competitive tendering. Following this period, all new routes will be subject to a competitive tendering process open to all operators. The precise arrangements will be approved by Government on the basis of proposals from the Dublin Transport Authority. This approach will encourage new investment and innovation in the Dublin bus passenger market. The Government also agreed that in the interests of stability and integration of the bus network, the legislation establishing the Dublin Transport Authority will allow it to enter into a direct contract with Dublin Bus, in accordance with EU law, on the basis of it continuing to operate without a diminution in the size of their current bus fleet. The Dublin Transport Authority will allocate all subventions, both to Dublin Bus and to new operators, on an objective, transparent and even handed basis so as to maximise value for public money. The integrated nature of the Dublin bus market will be underpinned through the Dublin Transport Authority having responsibility for traffic management strategy, which will prioritise public transport, and for integrated ticketing, fares and information systems. The Dublin Transport Authority will also be empowered to organise the allocation of routes to operators in such a way as to maximise their prospect of efficient operation and the coherent development of the bus network. The Government is also investing up to €50m for the delivery of up to 160 buses for Bus Éireann in the period commencing 2007 for non-commercial services outside of Dublin. In line with commitments in the Programme for Government, new legislation will be brought forward to replace the Road Transport Act, 1932 with a modern regulatory and licensing regime. This will be designed in a manner consistent with EU law on public service obligations and State aids and in such a way as to create new opportunities and a level playing field for private operator involvement in the bus market. The combination of immediate investment in new bus capacity and structural reform to introduce competition and enhance incentives for efficiency, represent a balanced strategy to benefit bus passengers and taxpayers alike. It follows extensive consultation with interested parties and study of mechanisms used internationally to achieve efficiency and effectiveness in the bus market. The Government's strategy will deliver immediate benefits and secure steady and continuing progress into the future. Minister Cullen added: (The Government's Transport Investment Programme Transport 21 recognises the critical role that an expanded bus service will have in meeting transport needs, including new and expanded feeder services to support a substantially expanded rail network. In total the programme provides approx. €770m for upgrading bus services, with €530m being provided for the Greater Dublin Area and €240m for the rest of the country.)<hr></blockquote> Anonymous on "Mystery private routes" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/3244#post-3244 Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:41:30 +0000 Anonymous 3244@http://busrage.com/forum/ Can anyone enlighten me as to what exactly are these non-DB buses which go around the place with route numbers? An example is a Dualway bus I saw at College Green this morning with "613 Lucan" on it. I have also seen a bus stop marked with these routes. I am sure these are not DB services, nor are they those BE services which use hired private coaches. [posted by: Richard] Richard on "Goodbody report" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/3756#post-3756 Wed, 06 Apr 2005 07:37:58 +0000 Richard 3756@http://busrage.com/forum/ From what I have seen of the Goodbody report commissioned by private operators, it is the most utter piece of tosh ever written on the subject. It completely fails to recognise that bus subventions are an environmental and economic necessity for a city like Dublin, and that only a publicly controlled bus system can respond properly to the real needs of all Dublin's transport users. Martin Ryan on "Community Support Programmes (In the Context of Price Increases)" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/3535#post-3535 Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:43:47 +0000 Martin Ryan 3535@http://busrage.com/forum/ How can Dublin Bus justify their misuse of taxpayers' money by spending it on community support programmes when they are not a charity, not an NGO, nor a private or public company which has mandate for such expenditures? As a regular Dublin Bus user, I was quite offended when I saw advertisements about this initiative on double-deckers which I use to commute around the city. For those readers who do not use public transport (yet still fund it through their taxes) have a look at: <a href="http://www.dublinbus.ie/home/community_support.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.dublinbus.ie/home/community_support.asp</a> I view this as a collosal, indecent and illegitimate flushing of public money down the toilet. It is perfectly fine for private and public companies to use some of their profits to support community programmes. Strong arguments can be made for the added value which shareholders of private and public companies gain from corporate social responsibility (especially in the long-run). However, Dublin Bus doesn't have any profits and it doesn't need to invest in social responsibility. It is a monopoly entity, protected by the cowardice which is symptomatic of our dithering nanny state governance. What benefit could shareholders receive from investments in social responsibility when the Dublin Bus service is the only option for public-bus transport? In short, Dublin Bus do not have a mandate for this activity, nor does it make any straegic sense. The final straw was the 5 per cent rise in Dublin Bus fares at the start of the new year (http://busrage.com/news28.html). This rise in fares is twice the rate of Irish inflation and simply beggars belief. What is the extra revenue being spent on? Community support programmes? I demand, as an indirect shareholder/stakeholder in Dublin Bus, that they stop wasting my money. And I also demand, as a reluctant customer of Dublin Bus, that they stop charging me extra to subsidise unnecessary investment in social responsibility initiatives. Its true that Dublin Bus have a lacklustre public image, but what matter when there is no alternative for commuters such as myself? If I ever become Transport minister, I will not hesitate in opening up the bus-lanes to private operators. In fact, I would also be quite willing to invest my savings in a private bus-operator. As I'm on the subject about the ways in which I prefer to spend my money, I would like to offer the following caveat to the unions at Dublin Bus: I would rather pay your social-welfare support than your wages from Dublin Bus. I hear that Willie Walsh has experience in making a success of low-cost transport. Why don't you ask him to set up a bus-company and send in your CV? Al on "Think privatisation works?" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/2207#post-2207 Sun, 09 May 2004 19:21:58 +0000 Al 2207@http://busrage.com/forum/ It certainly has not in New York City. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority is currently in the throes of taking over the operations of seven private bus operators, most of whom operate in the Queens borough. Among the problems plaguing the private operators are inability to keep to a timetable, buses in bad condition, and many others. Currently, the fare is 50 cents less than the MTA bus fare; but considering what is gotten in exchange, the MTA takeover looks like a positive thing. Lest anyone think that privatisation is truly viable, consider that it is due to the unprofitability and unreliability of private bus operations within cities and suburbs that CIE was created in thie first place. Here are some <a href="http://www.straphangers.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=25;t=000677;p=0" target="_new">articles from Straphangers.org</a>, whom are an advocacy group for public transportation. AlekSmart on "Ministers Head." http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1810#post-1810 Tue, 03 Feb 2004 07:50:35 +0000 AlekSmart 1810@http://busrage.com/forum/ I sometimes wonder at what type of process is going on within the Brennan Cranium. It appears to be a sort of fermentation process which bubbles along for a period then suddenly erupts and srews out a magma like substance through the mouth. In recent times it has occured to me that the Minister may well be correct in his claim that Franchising or Competitive operation of Dublins Bus service can solve most if not all of the City`s Public Transport problems. In fact Minister Brennan can point to Cities all over the world where his Lightly Regulated and Free-Market system does indeed work. These places vary from some Mexican cities to several Peruvian and Ecquadorian Metropolitan areas and then on to the African continent where the Public Transport landscape is full of Brennan Inspired operations. The common thread in all of these operations is the total ABSENCE of any semblance of Social Leglislation,Health and Safety Leglislation or Labour Leglislation of the type strongly enforced by the EU. There is an arguement to be made for removing,for example all the nonsense about Drivers Hours Regulations and allowing "The Market" to dictate the hours which the Owner Driver may work. Ditto with Minimum Wage or Health and Safety of Passengers. Its not to difficult to extrapolate the eventual outcome. Every year during summer peak we read of Coach Crashes on European Motorways the causes of which are eventually laid at the door of unscrupoulous operators working their Drivers far beyond the safe human endurance limit. This appears to be the type of Operator which Mr Brennan favours as it has the "Right Stuff" to compete with fuddy duddy Dublin Bus. Oh yes it is a very ointeresting scenario indeed...Hasta Luego.... aidan geary on "break up of cie" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1690#post-1690 Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:53:55 +0000 aidan geary 1690@http://busrage.com/forum/ i totally agree !!! seamus brennan's plans stink !!! Al on "Private bus service can lead to (turf wars)" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1496#post-1496 Sat, 29 Nov 2003 20:19:06 +0000 Al 1496@http://busrage.com/forum/ Mind you, this is the extreme of extremes, but unregulated, this is what things could lead to This <a href="http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/7371921.htm" target="_new">Philadelpha Inquirer article</a> details the woes of competing Chinatown Buses which transport people between the Chinatowns of respective cities, such as New York and Philadelphia, for a mere $20. Competition has gotten so fierce, however, that violence has ensued, resulting in assaults, arson attacks on buses, and even murderand one has to think, is this what Brennan and his cronies want for Ireland now? Anonymous on "privatization" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1467#post-1467 Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:22:41 +0000 Anonymous 1467@http://busrage.com/forum/ if privatization is going to benefit the end user, ie us. then how come the first of dublin buses privated out work "the school run's" are being done using buses some 20 years old have a look at the bus that pick's up your kid's for school, this will be the future of all private bus route's. MARK MY WORDS. P.s i've seen one from 1982 in tallaght. does anyone else have an opion on this? [posted by: dave] Anonymous on "Sad to see it all go so wrong" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1177#post-1177 Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:41:17 +0000 Anonymous 1177@http://busrage.com/forum/ I am a Busdriver at Dublin Bus and as bad as things are with DB things are going to get a lot worse. Just when we have good wages, conditions and "Busses" well some Busses, someone comes along and destroyes it all. A lot of people in my job have families, morgages to pay for and started a whole life and now they are mortified to see it all being taken away by the greed of our society. It is terrible to see how people just wait for an opportunity to take away the life a person build for profit. Shame on you. I know DB leaves a lot of issues to complain about but only because no one invests money into Buslanes for example etc.etc. I know the drivers are not always as friendly as they could be, the busses are not always as punctual as could be but we are just people like you trying to make it through a day. We have a lot on our mind and can't be nice to everybody all of the time. I think about the future a lot...how working for a private company will affect my life, my family and the conditions I'm working under. At the moment it already is a quite unsociable job I come home the funniest hours, can't really go to the pub on a friday night if I'm at work the next day and sometimes I don't even get to see my kids for a week...I just wonder how bad will it be when I have to go out there and work whatever hours the private company dictates to me. I am scared of the future because at the moment I really don't see the silver line on the horizon. [posted by: busdriver] admin on "Public Forums Against Privatisation" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1178#post-1178 Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:52:27 +0000 admin 1178@http://busrage.com/forum/ BUSRAGE received this as an email, thought we'd share it here, there's a meeting in Ballyfermot tonight, and one in Liberty Hall tomorrow, worth a look for anyone who is interested in the debate on privatisation. <hr> Public Forums Against Privatisation Monday 21st July, 8.00pm Jolly Toper (upstairs) Church St Finglas Tuesday 22nd July at 8.00pm Ballyfermot Civic Centre Wednesday 23rd July at 8.00pm Liberty Hall Speakers from Trade union and Community Groups Organised by Dublin Bus Workers—All welcome DEFEND PUBLIC TRANSPORT This Government is preparing to sell off and privatise CIE. The Transport minister Seamus Brennan wants to hand over 25% of Dublin Bus routes to private companies and non union foreign multi nationals. He claims that his policies will bring a better transport services for the public with more buses, cheaper fares and greater efficiencies. This is a lie. In every country that has introduced similar policies they have been a disaster. In Britain, the train services virtually collapsed after it was handed over to private companies. Safety standards plummeted as companies tried to cut costs to increase profits. A host of accidents resulted, like the Paddington disaster that saw scores of people die. On the buses, smaller companies were soon taken over by bigger multi nationals until now just three companies virtually control all of Britain’s Buses. Workers livelihoods have been decimated as profits where put before people. But right across Europe there have been similar experiences. Despite all of Brennan’s talk the public will not get a better service .Fares will rise, and big companies will control the cities bus network. This Government have already handed over the Luas system to a French multi national company called Connex. This company has had its licence to run trains in Britain revoked because of gross inefficiencies and bad safety practices. CIE is just the start of this governments sell offs. It wants to do what Thatcher did in Britain. Brennan has announced plans to break up Aer Rianta, and workers there are meeting to organise the fightback. Soon it will try to privatise the ESB, Air Lingus and the VHI .They want us to pay the bin tax so they can then sell off the refuge service to multi nationals. It wants to hand over our schools and hospitals to the same multi nationals who are only interested in profits and don’t care a dame for people . But CIE workers are fighting back. They are not just fighting for their own jobs and conditions but for all of our futures. Come along to this meeting and hear their side of the argument and get involved in the campaign to support them and stop this governments mad privatisation plans. If you want a future that is not controlled by some foreign multi national come along and help us build this campaign! PEOPLE BEFORE PROFIT OUR WORLD IS NOT FOR SALE For more details contact 086-3074060 Al on "RTE Poll shows high public support for privatisation" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1157#post-1157 Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:47:24 +0000 Al 1157@http://busrage.com/forum/ View the poll <a href=http://isis.rte.ie/vpoll/vote.asp?poll=185&answer=0>here</a>; thus far, some 66 percent pro and 34 percent anti. Is it just lack of education? Oh well, let them get what they want in that case. Looks like until Bertie gets kicked out of office, we shall be stuck with the Robert Moses era of transportation lack of choice. tlmk on "eu regulations on health & safety" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1169#post-1169 Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:31:12 +0000 tlmk 1169@http://busrage.com/forum/ just a thought, chances are that drivers being transfered to a private operator will find themselves working longer shifts, split shifts,shorter breaks, lower wages and a general drop in work conditions. would this be in contravention of eu health & safety regulations? Al on "Accountability for DB" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1112#post-1112 Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:46:34 +0000 Al 1112@http://busrage.com/forum/ If the DB situation in regards to timetable-keeping, route-cutting, etc. had not been permitted to run amok unabated, then quite simply there would be no talk of privatisation. You simply do not keep your bus service viable by cutting trips (frequency sells, you know), degrading quality of service, failing to deliver on promises (QBCs spring to mind among other failings), and especially letting the customer service communication break down in entirety (one too many apathetic responses means a severe down-turn in revenue from passengers). Of course, privatisation will absolutely not mean lower costs for the government; they will have to continue to subsidise these operators as well as deal with their maintenance issues (you think that they can operate out of the fare-box exclusively?? Not without major compromises). Historically, private operators have had the lowest-quality buses plus less frequent service (they will attempt to target the most profitable times of day to operate and cut all the rest). Furthermore, private operators would be required to finance their own health-care plus retirement funds for their personnel, or not, as the case may bethey may also be averse to unionisation, which would result of course in lower wages being paid to these operators, who in turn would have to suffer a lower standard of living (and we do not want to put our lives in the hands of sickly bus drivers). If DB had simply been far more accountable to the public over many of its present issues (malefactions?), then no such talk of privatisation or break-up would be in the air. However, it is worth noting that the entire CIE group has let abuses continue, mostly due to insulation from public accountability, the self-same public that they are supposed to serve (their other divisions, Bus Eireann and especially Iarnrod Eireann, have put on equally horrid displays themselves). Accountability, not break-up, is what would have solved these problems before they had even started Al on "Brennan defending CIE split (from OnBusiness.ie)" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1137#post-1137 Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:33:48 +0000 Al 1137@http://busrage.com/forum/ <center><a href='http://www.onbusiness.ie/2003/0625/cie01.html'>http://www.onbusiness.ie/2003/0625/cie01.html</a></center> What with the RPAs sudden drop in Metro cost estimates, I wonder how much longer Brennans defence of this plan can remain justified. As expected, the bus routes would be bid out to private operators, and they would be the low-ball bid, as the article renders it, those operators bidding for the least amount of state aid to operate routes. Lovelythe bus riders in Dublin will be stuck with imported Atlanteans from the 70s, or possibly worse than that (no, dont expect AEC Routemasters, since the way London Transport and their subsidiaries run them, they are now top-of-the-line and, besides, they require a conductor). Mr. Brennan also points out to OnBusiness the existence of a bus operator serving Dublin Airport who runs without any assistance from the taxpayer. Lovely; whomever it is is most likely the exception. Since the company is not named, there is no way to tell if it is a premium coach operator (numerous ones of those) or if it is <a href=http://www.aerdart.ie>AerDart</a>, who do not discuss their revenue streams on their web site. CIE have an alleged deficit of over 230 million, of which Mr. Brennan says he has no intention of wiping out. Mr. Brennan also warned the CIE unions that participating in this no-fare day would put CIE in the hole for another 1 million. Any comments? Anonymous on "FAO Armitage" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1055#post-1055 Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:01:06 +0000 Anonymous 1055@http://busrage.com/forum/ hello,is it possible for you to post details of what goes on in the meeting. I'm a driver in Conyngham road and unfortunately i'm on lates tomorrow and can't make it. [posted by: Blinky] Anonymous on "Public meeting" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/1051#post-1051 Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:01:34 +0000 Anonymous 1051@http://busrage.com/forum/ There's a public meeting on brennans plans at 8 o clock on the 10th june in parnell square west.not sure of the name of the club but it's on posters on bus stops around town.Speakers include the N.B.R.U, S.I.P.T.U and a transport worker from Britain who'll spell out what a shambles public transport is since privatisation in the uk. [posted by: blinky] Anonymous on "Privatisation," http://busrage.com/forum/topic/958#post-958 Sat, 24 May 2003 23:08:31 +0000 Anonymous 958@http://busrage.com/forum/ Privatisation, well well well, just how is privatisation going to make my life as a bus user better? will private operators provide a quicker more frequent service? I think not. If I, and I am a “lay” person can see that this is plan is inherently flawed, let me give you an example, if I owned ten busses and I had to make profit, I would only work my busses at a peak time, I would not run empty busses up and down a road collecting people with free passes (o.a.p's, social welfare and the like) unless someone was going to pay me, i.e. in the form of a subsidies from the government and the reason the government is getting rid of Dublin bus is because it has to subsidise it. So this would seem to be a catch 22 situation, either we keep a regular service from Dublin bus, or we subsidise a private person to do exactly the same job Dublin bus is doing, the only difference is fat cat's and share holders will profit from our misery, now call me a pessimist but I see Dublin bus becoming a service to provide for our workforce who use the bus between 7am and 9.30 am and again between 4.30pm and 7 p.m and to hell with older and unemployed people… they can walk or pay a full fare. In conclusion I want a service for my community, everybody, school kids the old and those who can't afford to run a car, I personally think Dublin bus could be made better, localised control of each garage instead of having one big head office that has not got a clue what goes on at garage level, more flexible time tables with the ability to add or withdraw extra busses as a road need's them, and some kind of incentive for drivers to make sure correct fares are made and journey times are met, I'm sure I could go on all night ranting and raving but it look's like privation is a fore gone conclusion and the share holders will be calling the shots,…………………… maybe it wont be so bad, and maybe saddam wasn't such a bad ol' skin!!! Ha ha ha. [posted by: dave] Al on "Old RTE article featuring union criticism of Brennan's privatisation proposals" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/899#post-899 Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:03:15 +0000 Al 899@http://busrage.com/forum/ <TABLE ALIGN=right WIDTH=190><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER><img src="http://www.rte.ie/news/2002/1107/Seamus%20Brennan.jpg" border=0></TD></TR><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=TOP>Old RTE article featuring union criticism of Brennan's privatisation proposals (posted by Al) </TD></TR></TABLE>Unfortunately, this dates from November of last year, and I didn't bother to find record of what progress the National Bus and Railworker's Union have made or failed to make.The article does feature a pic of an tUasal Brennan, though, which I am posting. I believe that we could extract two new proverbs simply from viewing the pic, these being "Never trust ministers who have never heard of modern hair restoration techniques" (look at the toupé) and "Never trust ministers who resemble Charles Haughey too closely"... <ul><li><a href="http://www.rte.ie/news/2002/1107/bus.html">http://www.rte.ie/news/2002/1107/bus.html</a></ul> Anonymous on "privatisation/deregulation" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/788#post-788 Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:49:50 +0000 Anonymous 788@http://busrage.com/forum/ why let bertie @ co off the hook so easily?its the cie property portfolio they want [f**k the traveling public]' the only way they can get at it is by breaking up the company which is owned by <a href="mailto:u@me">u@me</a> .its there interferance that has cie the way it is . why the f**k should we allow him to benifit ,[brown envelope /property developer time i think]we have owned this company since 1945 were not gonna let some jackene gobs**te benefit while we still suffer whers all the ndp money gone? make the basdards sit up @take notice remember once privat not berties prob anymore @mr private operater has his own pocket @shareholders to worry about were f**ked big time folks! by the way happy new year to one @all [posted by: ollie dlk] Geeka on "Privatise the Buses" http://busrage.com/forum/topic/60#post-60 Sat, 28 Apr 2001 14:33:27 +0000 Geeka 60@http://busrage.com/forum/ Wouldn't it be great if DB had compition, like the big Blue AirCoaches. it seems like I see more of those coaches then Dublin Buses and the only run on one route!